New [Used] Car Help

[NYDrew]

So my faithful old BMW finally kicked the bucket on Friday as we were approaching 170K. Need a new car, hopefully someone has an idea.

I got $5000 saved up for this inevitable day.

I would like, but the car does not need to have any of these:
2000 or higher model year (1997 the oldest)
Less then 100000k mi
AWD
Good on gas
No real defects. (clean exterior, interior and drivetrain)
"Cool"

So far I've checked craigs list and so far I see myself getting drawn to subarus and jettas.
Any ideas where to find cars or any suggestions to expand my search.

 

[teachski]

The further from bigger cities you can get the less the car will cost. I'd go new, that way you are not getting someone elses problem. There are a lot of incentives to buy now, interest rates on new are also less than what you will find on a used car. With the incentives and the lower interest rates it is often cheaper, or about the same to get a brand new car. I love my Subaru!

 

[ckofer]

AWD & good on gas should narrow the field for you... Don't expect anyone to let go of a great, fuel-efficient rig too cheap right now.

 

[ALLSKIING]

This site might help.

http://www.autotrader.com/?LNX=SPGOOGLEFINDACAR

 

[tree_skier]

skip the awd and get studded tires for the winter. A civic or corolla will get you an actual 35-40mpg (almost twice a subaru) plus have far fewer repairs.

 

[skibum1321]

I agree that you don't need the AWD. I have a Mazda3 with snow tires and it is just fine in the snow. Good driving will do more to help your driving in snow than AWD will ever do. Subarus tend to get pretty bad mileage and are fairly expensive. On the other hand, they are really well built and last forever. I got mine a year old from a dealer about a year ago. No problems so far (knock on wood).

I would look at a 2-3 year old Mazda3, Corolla, Civic, etc. and you should be able to get it fairly cheap.

 

[NYDrew]

AWD is very essential to me although I'm not ruling out FWD or even rear. Remember, I'm an instructor and my mountain is over an hour away from my house. On those powder days when you are all waking up and taking your time for safety, I have to be at work to punch in...weather is no excuse, its part of the job.

New cars are ruled out, dont have enough $ to buy it. Driving record isn't good enough to afford full coverage (one more year, 18 monthes max till it clears..ive been a very good boy) such that I can lease/finance.

One thing I do have is time. Tommorrow, I am heading over to my gararge to start getting the camaro road ready again. While 4mpg is going to hurt me, at least it gives me time to find the right car for daily driving.

Anyway, heres a new challenge: name every AWD vehicle you know of (subaru doesn't count...we all know that one already)...i do know that honda and toyota do have some AWD models (i even think there is a civic) just have to find it.

 

[ckofer]

Buy a Civic for most days and a Suburban (cheap now!) for when you need it.

 

[NYDrew]

OK, c'mon guys. I got exactly $5256 and already have a high maintenance muscle car with essentially no gas mileage. I appreciate the help, but I can't afford new cars, a third car etc.

 

[thaller1]

So my faithful old BMW finally kicked the bucket on Friday as we were approaching 170K. Need a new car, hopefully someone has an idea.

I got $5000 saved up for this inevitable day.

I would like, but the car does not need to have any of these:
2000 or higher model year (1997 the oldest)
Less then 100000k mi
AWD
Good on gas
No real defects. (clean exterior, interior and drivetrain)
"Cool"


Have you checked the auto finder on line? That's how I located my BMW (I'm in Maine and she was in NH)
So far I've checked craigs list and so far I see myself getting drawn to subarus and jettas.
Any ideas where to find cars or any suggestions to expand my search.

NO JETTAS!! They aren't made in Germany anymore...but in Mexico!! We've had two along with two passats... I feel VW has gone down the tubes in the last few years...I was very disappointed in my last..

I have not heard anything bad about the Subarus except for possible early rusting..but I think they may have changed their paint recently.

Why not going back to BMW? (that's what we have now.. a '88 318i and a '00 323i and we love them both...good on gas and very reliable...

autofinder.com is how I found my BMW you can search by price and years etc... my BMW was in NH and I'm in Me...
check autofinder.com that's how I found my BMW ( I am in Maine and she was in New Hampshire) ..

 

[skibum1321]

The Toyota Matrix is AWD, but if I were going to get an AWD car it would be a Subaru.

IMO good gas mileage and AWD are mutually exclusive. 22-23 mpg is probably about the best you'll find - which is certainly better than SUVs, but still not that good. Also, you say that you need to be to work on time so you can't take is slow in the snow. But you need to remember that the road will be filled with other people going slow, so you probably will be too. Also, AWD isn't some miracle device that allows you to drive 50 in the snow.

 

[bvibert]

Anyway, heres a new challenge: name every AWD vehicle you know of (subaru doesn't count...we all know that one already)...i do know that honda and toyota do have some AWD models (i even think there is a civic) just have to find it.

Volvo has AWD models I believe. Of course there's also Audi, but that's going to be a bit out of your price range. Ford also has the Five Hundred AWD, which is based on a Volvo drive-train I think, but it's gonna be too new to be in your range as well. Not to mention it's pretty big and gets relatively poor mileage..

If you really must have AWD then a Subby or VW are probably your best bet.

 

[skibum1321]

Volvo is going to be out of the price range too unless it's a pretty old one.

 

[bvibert]

Volvo is going to be out of the price range too unless it's a pretty old one.

True, I meant to say that in my message. Damn work distracting me...

 

[YardSaleDad]

Go Classic

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4647367618&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1

It's not old, it's experienced

 

[NYDrew]

granted I can't go high speed in the snow, but at least I can go at a steady speed. Anyway, the highway I take to work is usually void of traffic, it is very empty, always.

I just found a toyota echo in my price range....really a once in a lifetime deal. anyone have experience with these

 

[skibum1321]

Toyota cars are usually pretty reliable. I would say that is probably on par with the Toyota Tercel of years past - which is an entry level car with no bells and whistles that will get good gas mileage and last a while.

 

[Marc]

IMO good gas mileage and AWD are mutually exclusive.

It's a good point, although this isn't to say that there aren't AWD vehicles out there that get reasonable gas mileage.

One should always keep in mind though, that unlike a 4WD equiped vehicle, there is no transfer case, or locking hubs. AWD cars have a center differential only, so drive power is constantly applied to both directions, essentially more than doubling driveline power loss (more than double loss because of the addition of the center diff.) Add to that the extra weight added by the additional AWD hardwear (two more differentials, one more drive shaft, two more half shafts/drive hubs) and the a car with AWD with be significantly less efficient than the same car in 2WD form.

 

[bvibert]

It's a good point, although this isn't to say that there aren't AWD vehicles out there that get reasonable gas mileage.

One should always keep in mind though, that unlike a 4WD equiped vehicle, there is no transfer case, or locking hubs. AWD cars have a center differential only, so drive power is constantly applied to both directions, essentially more than doubling driveline power loss (more than double loss because of the addition of the center diff.) Add to that the extra weight added by the additional AWD hardwear (two more differentials, one more drive shaft, two more half shafts/drive hubs) and the a car with AWD with be significantly less efficient than the same car in 2WD form.

IIRC the AWD systems in most modern cars are smart and only deliver power to the other set of wheels when necessary. That said there is still more weight and drag on an AWD car.

 

[Marc]

IIRC the AWD systems in most modern cars are smart and only deliver power to the other set of wheels when necessary. That said there is still more weight and drag on an AWD car.

Well, "smart" might not be the right word for it. The commercials you see on TV would like you to believe that. Some of the more advanced systems will use accelerometers to compare the direction of the car and the position of the steering wheel to and apply break to one or two wheels to aid in a skid. But that can be done on a car that drives any combination of wheels.

All modern AWD systems have forms of slip control. An AWD system by definition has three differentials and no transfer case: a front, center and rear. If all the differentials were standard open differentials, than as soon as one tire lost traction, all the torque would be driven to the slipping wheel, as is the nature of differentials.

2WD cars have the same problem, which is why various limited slip systems were invented, from the famous GM posi traction to modern traction control which essentially applies break to the slipping wheel, which "fools" the differential by essentially apply resistance torque, the same as the ground does under non-slip conditions.

AWD cars use similar concepts except it is essentially doubled. Subaru uses viscous fluid clutches to limit slip in their systems. This is sort of like a torque converter, one on each side of both the front and rear diff. Audi uses electronic traction control on the front and rear with a Torsen center diff., which is a really cool all mechanical system which under a low torque condition from one side, actually multiplies the torque by a certain gear factor to the other side (the side with more traction).

Manufacturers can balance the torque to a certain extent going to the front and rear drive wheels under normal driving conditions with AWD, Subaru puts a bias to the front to create more understeer (as most cars are set up for because it was deemed "safer" than being in an oversteer condition). I believe BMW, in their X cars (325xi, 330xi, etc.) uses a rear torque bias for the more performance oriented drive.

The point is, though, under normal driving conditions, the mechanical nature of AWD dictates torque is actually flowing to all four drive wheels, and both front and rear drive systems are being used, increasing drivetrain power loss.