• Welcome to AlpineZone, the largest online community of skiers and snowboarders in the Northeast!

    You may have to REGISTER before you can post. Registering is FREE, gets rid of the majority of advertisements, and lets you participate in giveaways and other AlpineZone events!

NFS Approves Two Newly Developed Backcountry Glade Skiing Areas in WMNF

deadheadskier

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
27,921
Points
113
Location
Southeast NH
Not holding my breath, but hoping this paves the way for relaxing upper mountain glading restrictions at Wildcat and Attitash. Both could use it

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app
 

Hawk

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2016
Messages
2,421
Points
113
Location
Mad River Valley / MA
This very topic is being discuss all over New England. And like everything there are 2 sides. The GBA is very organized and does a great job of advocating and organizing to get these things done. On the other hand there are the local skiers that have been quietly cutting and skiing these areas for years. Now that the GBA got involved the whole area is on the radar and sees way more traffic than it originally did. I can see both sides and can feel more for the locals. I would hate to have an area in my town that was skied by probably a dozen or so people, now over run by hundreds on the weekends.
 

raisingarizona

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
1,054
Points
83
This very topic is being discuss all over New England. And like everything there are 2 sides. The GBA is very organized and does a great job of advocating and organizing to get these things done. On the other hand there are the local skiers that have been quietly cutting and skiing these areas for years. Now that the GBA got involved the whole area is on the radar and sees way more traffic than it originally did. I can see both sides and can feel more for the locals. I would hate to have an area in my town that was skied by probably a dozen or so people, now over run by hundreds on the weekends.

Public lands aren’t Just for locals.
 

Hawk

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2016
Messages
2,421
Points
113
Location
Mad River Valley / MA
Public lands aren’t Just for locals.
No question there. You are absolutely right. All I am saying is that if I was living in a small town and skied in areas for years without a mass intrusions of out of towners. And then all of a sudden this group of people came in and got approval to cut the woods, opened it all up and then publicized to the world to come and get it, I would be pretty depressed about it. That is all I am saying.
 

2Planker

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
1,459
Points
113
Location
MWV, NH
Wow. I've hiked the BaldFace Circle Trail many times. Great Knife edge trail between North & South Baldface.
I can see there would be some sweet stashes in there.
 

SkiRay

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
261
Points
16
Public lands aren’t Just for locals.

Funny, I was reading through a thread on the ADK today, since we released our Whiteface episode, and seeing the conversations between those downstate and the local community was not healthy. It like needs an intervention. The communities around the mountains struggle - you know that first hand. So, I guess they see the public land that is free, their playground.
 

thetrailboss

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
32,329
Points
113
Location
NEK by Birth
This very topic is being discuss all over New England. And like everything there are 2 sides. The GBA is very organized and does a great job of advocating and organizing to get these things done. On the other hand there are the local skiers that have been quietly cutting and skiing these areas for years. Now that the GBA got involved the whole area is on the radar and sees way more traffic than it originally did. I can see both sides and can feel more for the locals. I would hate to have an area in my town that was skied by probably a dozen or so people, now over run by hundreds on the weekends.

I certainly understand the crowding issue.
 

deadheadskier

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
27,921
Points
113
Location
Southeast NH
I've got a local friend in the Valley who has been big in the BC scene for about the last 15 years.

What he and many others are against is that many of the GBA folks aren't locals. Many are "Flatlanders." Then general belief is there is already tons of BC terrain in the Valley, but a lot of it requires a lot of hard work to access and the terrain is quite difficult to ski. The beleif is that the GBA folks aren't willing to put in the work to learn and use what's already there and that this additional terrain is simply too easy to access and yes, will increase crowding.

I'm not saying I agree with these opinions, I'm just sharing what I'm hearing from folks who are opposed to the GBA.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app
 

AdironRider

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
3,483
Points
63
I've got a local friend in the Valley who has been big in the BC scene for about the last 15 years.

What he and many others are against is that many of the GBA folks aren't locals. Many are "Flatlanders." Then general belief is there is already tons of BC terrain in the Valley, but a lot of it requires a lot of hard work to access and the terrain is quite difficult to ski. The beleif is that the GBA folks aren't willing to put in the work to learn and use what's already there and that this additional terrain is simply too easy to access and yes, will increase crowding.

I'm not saying I agree with these opinions, I'm just sharing what I'm hearing from folks who are opposed to the GBA.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

I see this a lot here in Jackson. It really just boils down to the notion of "they were here first" and can't handle other people using areas as well.

Like Nimbys only for the forest.
 

ironhippy

Member
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
408
Points
18
Location
NB Canda
Then general belief is there is already tons of BC terrain in the Valley, but a lot of it requires a lot of hard work to access and the terrain is quite difficult to ski. The beleif is that the GBA folks aren't willing to put in the work to learn and use what's already there

Sounds like a problem that solves itself... The "locals" go to the difficult to access stuff and then leave the easy stuff for the "flatlanders"?

Hell if you are smart, you can poach all the good lines on the easy stuff early after a snow storm and then spend the rest of the day/weekend skiing more remote stuff that will be untouched...

When I get annoyed at crowding at my local hill, I go find stuff that no one else is willing to ski...
 

deadheadskier

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
27,921
Points
113
Location
Southeast NH
Well, some of these folks are also big time naturalists who think cutting should only happen at developed ski areas. Basically, if terrain is skiable due to a natural event such as a slide, then great, go ski it. Otherwise they think the forest should be left alone to do it's thing except for a few hiking trails.

I really don't have an opinion one way or another, I just hope if the Forest Service is relaxing their rules a bit, maybe where I ski at Wildcat will see some benefit. Whenever I ask about Glade expansion at Wildcat, I'm told the USFS will only allow it below 3K feet. There's a ton of acreage up high within the ski area boundaries that could be opnened up.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app
 

raisingarizona

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
1,054
Points
83
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

It's growing pains and things change.

Here in flagstaff we are trying to develop an updated trail system and turn our antiquated system into something special. Locals want good trails but they don't want to turn it into Sedona. The problem is is that people keep building poorly laid out social trails so we need the FS to let us build some sustainable trails that provide the experiences that people are looking for but if you have really good trails more people are going to come. That's a good thing for local businesses and having the activities actually managed is good for the environment. The illegal trail building or in this case the illegal thinning will hopefully stop and become part of a managed program. Basically, when I hear a few vocal and passionate locals crying about change all I hear are a bunch of whiny selfish babies. The environmental damage argument is a smoke screen and total bull shit last ditch attempt to get their way. Many Sierra Club members are masters of that move.
 

Hawk

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2016
Messages
2,421
Points
113
Location
Mad River Valley / MA
I see this a lot here in Jackson. It really just boils down to the notion of "they were here first" and can't handle other people using areas as well.

Like Nimbys only for the forest.

I don't think that this is accurate. It's not that they were there first. It's that they live there and people from outside there community or even state showed up because people put it on the internet with maps and said ski here without any consideration at all for the locals. In the MRV most people learn the old fashion way. They go an find it themselves or they are shown by friends and we don't need people to come and flatten the woods to make it easier. But if a community as a whole decides to do this then the more power to them as they made a decision as a group to do this. I think the Rasta trails down in Rochester and Randolf are a good example of that.

Personally when I go I never tell anybody where I went and seldom go the same way twice. It ensures that I never see any other tracks. ;-)
 

AdironRider

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
3,483
Points
63
I don't think that this is accurate. It's not that they were there first. It's that they live there and people from outside there community or even state showed up because people put it on the internet with maps and said ski here without any consideration at all for the locals. In the MRV most people learn the old fashion way. They go an find it themselves or they are shown by friends and we don't need people to come and flatten the woods to make it easier. But if a community as a whole decides to do this then the more power to them as they made a decision as a group to do this. I think the Rasta trails down in Rochester and Randolf are a good example of that.

Personally when I go I never tell anybody where I went and seldom go the same way twice. It ensures that I never see any other tracks. ;-)

Dude you literally just illustrated my point.

It has nothing to do with the internet and everything to do with you don't want other people there.
 

abc

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,801
Points
113
Location
Lower Hudson Valley
Sounds like the cat is already out the bag? Once it’s on the Internet, the flatlanders will come. With or without “official” thinning.
 

Domeskier

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,274
Points
63
Location
New York
Someone should make an 80's movie where these hill people who illegally destroy public forest land and the flatlanders who drive 4 hours to track out their secret stashes fight at first and then find common ground against the evil corporate interests preventing them from drinking beer and throwing snowballs at the local ski resort.
 

JimG.

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
Messages
11,988
Points
113
Location
Hopewell Jct., NY
Someone should make an 80's movie where these hill people who illegally destroy public forest land and the flatlanders who drive 4 hours to track out their secret stashes fight at first and then find common ground against the evil corporate interests preventing them from drinking beer and throwing snowballs at the local ski resort.

"No Backcountry For Old Men"
 
Top