Old School

[jsul]

I've been reading some great threads on this site. I've been tempted to comment but realize my thoughts really don't fit on a particular thread. I like straight but not long boards. I ski the Dynastar twister, 98-66-85, I ski with my weight loaded on the front of the ski and have no use for being cuff neutral or putting any weight on my heels. Short radius turns in the trees and bumps is what motivates me to ski. The purpose of this post is to make a collective point that it's not the skis it's the skier. It's not the conditions of the snow, it's the skier. Don't waste your hard earned cash on $1000.00 skis and a $100 psia lesson. Feel the snow and practice. This youtube clip is the early 90's Canadian mogul team skiing 190 cm kneissl skis w/ no side cut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwKpLfIwybo

Today, a combination of too much groomed terrain and parabolic skis/snowboards force wide radius turns and force me into the gladed trees:smile:. Challenging ungroomed terrain is practically non-existent today relative to what it was in the 90's when all of Bear mountain at Killington was all natural skiing. . What I don't understand about the ski industry is they build 40 ft. terrain park jumps and allow any high schooler to launch themselves into the air causing acl and spinal injuries yet they feel a need to groom everything. Whatever happened to making turns. Park rat skiers today can ski forward and (amazingly) backwards but if you watch them they can't make turns any where near a racer or back country skier. There are more injuries in the park then any where else on the hill. Outer limits in the 90's was meant to be skied by those who are up to the challenge. Not those who spent $1650 on parabolic skis and ski the 2008-9 groomed section. I am skeptical of the money and resources that goes into the parks today. Resorts have more full time staffed park groomers for one park then the rest of the hill. Young skiers/riders today think its all about how much air you get. The 2009 Xtrme skier champ is Simon Dumont. Dumont landed an incredible superman double front flip to win the gold but the networks failed to talk about what an accomplished all around skier Dumont is. He is a former world cup mogul skier and has made some incredible back country ski videos. Killington ( a resort that gets unfairly picked on by people like me) used to stay open till June but now they spend an exorbitent amount of labor and resources on parks and shuts down the 3rd week of April when the skiing is just getting good:smile:.I will sit at home this weekend while it's 0 degrees and spend my spring days off from work skiing when its 45 degrees :smile: I would like to share this skiing experience with the masses that are skiing this weekend but their respective resorts will be closed while I ,like many of you, will be hiking tuck's or skiing the eastern snow base. :smile:Look at the skiers in this video and remember it's the skier not the.skis.

:beer: Cheers to the greatest skier to come out of New England

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk2UZyBAFh8

 

[deadheadskier]

Yes, it is the skier, not the skis, no doubt

....but I've used this analogy before, just because you can screw in a phillips head screw with a flat head driver, doesn't mean you should.

I would also argue that there is FAR MORE challenging ungroomed terrain today at most eastern ski areas than there was in the 90's.

and yes I have two pairs of 'parabolic' skis purchased for under $300 over the internet. I used to pay $500+ for skis in the store in the 90's.

My powder boards are Old School though, Rossi Axioms circa 1998, 184CM zero side cut, 110ish in the waste....but I'm sure I'll happily replace them once the time is right and I find the right deal.

good to have opinions, but preaching what is wrong for other skiers to do (buying $1000 parabolics or whatever else you stated) is pointless. It's like trying to convince someone to change their politics or religion....99% of the time, it ain't gonna happen.

enjoy what you like in the sport....what's right for you isn't right for everyone.

 

[2knees]

great post. i have strong feelings on the subject of gear myself.

although it may piss some people off, i laugh inwardly at all the threads i read where someone says, "i struggled with the snow conditions because i dont have "xxx" kind of skis" or i need to buy another pair of boots to fit my "xxx" style of skiing and on and on.

No, you need to get better and stop blaming your equiptment.

MrMagic is a great example of the opposite. He kills bumps on 105mm skis. ice bumps. i've never heard that guy say he needs a different ski.

 

[wa-loaf]

I can ski on straight skis and have a good time.

I can ski on modern skis and have better time.

I've never paid more than $400 for skis.

I don't think anyone here spends $1000 on skis.

I think there are too many whiners.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I can ski on straight skis and have a good time.

I can ski on modern skis and have better time.

I've never paid more than $400 for skis.

I don't think anyone here spends $1000 on skis.

I think there are too many whiners.

I agree with you there..I remember when my El Caminos seemed wide..it's all relative..and powder is great on race skis..but for busting thick crud and mank..fat skis are sa weet..

 

[Geoff]

I like straight but not long boards. I ski the Dynastar twister, 98-66-85,

When did 30-ish mm of sidecut become "straight"? Everything I owned from the 1960's through around 1998 had 6 to 8mm of sidecut. A Dynaster Twister is almost as shaped as the old Salomon X-Scream Series. An X-Scream Series had a 68mm waist and a 106mm tip.

66mm is narrow, not "straight". If you look at any race stock SL ski, the dimensions are going to be similar to a Dynaster twister. The difference is the flex pattern and torsional rigidity. Compared to a race ski, the Dynaster is a limp noodle so you can skid it in the bumps & trees.

 

[jarrodski]

What I don't understand about the ski industry is they build 40 ft. terrain park jumps and allow any high schooler to launch themselves into the air causing acl and spinal injuries yet they feel a need to groom everything. Whatever happened to making turns. Park rat skiers today can ski forward and (amazingly) backwards but if you watch them they can't make turns any where near a racer or back country skier. There are more injuries in the park then any where else on the hill.

I am skeptical of the money and resources that goes into the parks today. Resorts have more full time staffed park groomers for one park then the rest of the hill. Young skiers/riders today think its all about how much air you get.

simply not true that there are more injuries arising out of parks than the rest of the hill... they are however more apparant because there is a constant state of traffic through the trail... which is usually a front and center trail, visable from as many places as possible.

decisions to groom trails, build kickers, put in lifts... are all based on what a ski areas consumers are asking for... if the contingient wants moguls, they get moguls...

ability to ski all mountain is dependent on who you're watching...i know guys that place in slalom and then ride switch all day after...

and yes... its all about how much air you get... because that's the new definition of fun according to people much younger than most skiers. (future)... who knows where this crazy sport is going... but if there's one constant... it's that fun will rule over everything, and the dude who's whooting his way down the trail is truly the best skier out there.

to take this to another direction... what's up with dudes on straight skis standing on landings and cutting people off while rocking blue jeans with a family in tow, haning out in blind spots in the park?

 

[Geoff]

Outer limits in the 90's was meant to be skied by those who are up to the challenge. Not those who spent $1650 on parabolic skis and ski the 2008-9 groomed section.

For the record:

Outer Limits just got 50% groomed for the first time a few days ago. With the thaw they just had, skier's right is going to suck for the next few days. I'll probably go ski skier's right later this week in the downpour when it's soft. Until they resurface it, OL is going to be pretty lousy even on the groomed 50%. None of this is new. OL was often 50% groomed back in the 1980's. It's either that or string a rope across the entrance.

Fiddle is completely au natural. Bring rock skis.

Most people agree with you about the rest of Bear. I won't ski it Friday through Sunday. Lower Dream Maker and the trail intersection where The Stash, Skyeburst, and Bear Claw all intersect are freakin' dangerous. They're littered with low skill teens. Fortunately, the mountain has plenty of other places to hide where they don't groom. Like many other mountains, Killington has apparently decided that kids who ski the terrain parks are important influencers in selecting a ski destination. I'd rather have them sacrifice Dream Maker and lower Bear Claw than other more interesting parts of the place.

 

[drjeff]

Like many other mountains, Killington has apparently decided that kids who ski the terrain parks are important influencers in selecting a ski destination. I'd rather have them sacrifice Dream Maker and lower Bear Claw than other more interesting parts of the place.

Agreed! That's whay I LOVE what Mount Snow did this year with turnign Carinthia into 1 giant terrain park. The customer demographic that tends to annoy me the most is now basically confined to a part of the mountain that I can avoid on the weekends if I so choose.

It wouldn't suprise me in the least if more areas across the Northeast follow the lead of Mount Snow and turn entire geographic areas of their mountains over to the park/pipe/freeskiing crew. The loss of terrain for the non park/pipe/freeskiing crew will be more than made up for with the improved situation over the rest of the mountain

 

[powbmps]

Compared to a race ski, the Dynaster is a limp noodle so you can skid it in the bumps & trees.

Hold on now! That's a sensitive subject :angry:.









Actually you make a good point regarding the sidecut. Todays bump skis really aren't that straight. My old 207 Verticals are about 84/62/76. That's pretty straight.

I think the Twister actually holds a pretty good edge. They are a hell of a lot more fun than the park/pipe P3s that I have.

 

[Geoff]

Actually you make a good point regarding the sidecut. Todays bump skis really aren't that straight. My old 207 Verticals are about 84/62/76. That's pretty straight.

I think the Twister actually holds a pretty good edge. They are a hell of a lot more fun than the park/pipe P3s that I have.

Yeah, I was surprised when I noticed that bump skis and all out race skis have pretty much the same dimensions. They look straight but that's because the waist is so narrow. Compared to race stock, bump skis really are pretty soft. ....granted, not as soft as what people use in the park but not the steel I-beams you see on the race course. Anything that narrow is going to hold a pretty good edge even if it's a fairly soft flex pattern. That's the beauty of modern ski construction. It used to be that you'd have to make a really stiff ski to make it torsionally rigid. I remember my first run on the original Salomon cap ski back in the early 90's. The ski was fairly soft and really easy to turn but had amazing edge grip. These days, even stupid-wide powder boards now have pretty good edge grip. Technology is a wonderful thing.

 

[powbmps]

Join us Geoff.........it really is beautiful over here.....jsul, mondeo, myself......we have seen the light.

Blue Oyster Cult said it best; don't fear the Twister. Wait that's not right.

Curse you AspenEast! The pimp, the dealer, the enabler. Curse you!

 

[Geoff]

Join us Geoff.........it really is beautiful over here.....jsul, mondeo, myself......we have seen the light.

Blue Oyster Cult said it best; don't fear the Twister. Wait that's not right.

Curse you AspenEast! The pimp, the dealer, the enabler. Curse you!

The narrowest thing in my quiver is 86mm underfoot. I'm doing half the turn cadence of you guys.

 

[deadheadskier]

great post. i have strong feelings on the subject of gear myself.

although it may piss some people off, i laugh inwardly at all the threads i read where someone says, "i struggled with the snow conditions because i dont have "xxx" kind of skis" or i need to buy another pair of boots to fit my "xxx" style of skiing and on and on.

No, you need to get better and stop blaming your equiptment.

MrMagic is a great example of the opposite. He kills bumps on 105mm skis. ice bumps. i've never heard that guy say he needs a different ski.

Haha, who are you trying to fool Pat. Just because you put off the whatever man, care free vibe in you wind pants, you ain't fooling anyone with your obsession for mogul skiing and the competition bump skis you rock :razz:

Cha bro, totally the wizard and not the wand. :lol:

What are you going to tell us your next post in this thread? That you got a sick deal on some racing boots this summer, but they work just fine for you in the bumps that you occasional 'like' to ski? :razz:

 

[2knees]

Haha, who are you trying to fool Pat. Just because you put off the whatever man, care free vibe in you wind pants, you ain't fooling anyone with your obsession for mogul skiing and the competition bump skis you rock :razz:

Cha bro, totally the wizard and not the wand. :lol:

What are you going to tell us your next post in this thread? That you got a sick deal on some racing boots this summer, but they work just fine for you in the bumps that you occasional 'like' to ski? :razz:

lol, nice dig.

i'm not railing against new equiptment. all i'm saying is the vast majority of people may be better served by spending their money on a lesson instead of buying 16 different pairs of skis for the 4 different kinds of conditions they may encounter.

i ski my bump skis in all conditions. on all terrain. i'm not the best skier by any stretch but i know my limitations are not caused by my skis, they're caused by my lack of talent. and the only reason i even have bump skis is because they were $99 and have pictures of snakes on them. i look so bad ass its scary.

 

[powbmps]

the only reason i even have bump skis is because they were $99 and have pictures of snakes on them. i look so bad ass its scary.

2knees this would make a great tattoo (in blue maybe). Tramp stamp perhaps?

 

[marcski]

Agreed! That's whay I LOVE what Mount Snow did this year with turnign Carinthia into 1 giant terrain park. The customer demographic that tends to annoy me the most is now basically confined to a part of the mountain that I can avoid on the weekends if I so choose.

It wouldn't suprise me in the least if more areas across the Northeast follow the lead of Mount Snow and turn entire geographic areas of their mountains over to the park/pipe/freeskiing crew. The loss of terrain for the non park/pipe/freeskiing crew will be more than made up for with the improved situation over the rest of the mountain

I totally agree. But I think Mt. Snow followed Mt. Creek's lead with this one..I think they turned their South peak into an all terrain park last season....before Mt. Snow did...

 

[jack97]

good to have opinions, but preaching what is wrong for other skiers to do (buying $1000 parabolics or whatever else you stated) is pointless. It's like trying to convince someone to change their politics or religion....99% of the time, it ain't gonna happen.

Without doubt, the group of skiers in this forum would never buy buy skis near msrp, however that doesn't mean these people do not exist. I would argue that those who do buy near msrp (say even 70% to 80% ) affects the market value for the rest of the ski. The whole industry (like many others) work off of tier pricing.

 

[prisnah]

simply not true that there are more injuries arising out of parks than the rest of the hill... they are however more apparant because there is a constant state of traffic through the trail... which is usually a front and center trail, visable from as many places as possible.

decisions to groom trails, build kickers, put in lifts... are all based on what a ski areas consumers are asking for... if the contingient wants moguls, they get moguls...

ability to ski all mountain is dependent on who you're watching...i know guys that place in slalom and then ride switch all day after...

and yes... its all about how much air you get... because that's the new definition of fun according to people much younger than most skiers. (future)... who knows where this crazy sport is going... but if there's one constant... it's that fun will rule over everything, and the dude who's whooting his way down the trail is truly the best skier out there.

to take this to another direction... what's up with dudes on straight skis standing on landings and cutting people off while rocking blue jeans with a family in tow, haning out in blind spots in the park?

x2. Great post.

 

[jack97]

A Dynaster Twister is almost as shaped as the old Salomon X-Scream Series. An X-Scream Series had a 68mm waist and a 106mm tip.

The key word is the "old" salllys.... the twister has almost the same shape as the all mountains skis back in the late 90s to early 00.

btw, nearly all present bumps ski max out at 100 mm at the tips, I refuse to get anything wider than this until I can stops crossing my tips.... yesterday, two tip cross ==> two face plants :angry: ...lol