Park City/Talisker-Vail Lawsuit

[Highway Star]

How am I incorrect? Did you not predict $200 to $300 million? Was the actual amount requested not $123.9 million? If you could actually provide some content to your post rather than an ape-like guttural response, it would be appreciated.

You should really go back and read my posts before calling me out. Your reading comprehension is horrific. I'm not going to sit here and argue with you, because you are beneath me and a complete waste of time. Go away please, and don't come back until you graduate middle school.

For anybody else who cares:

Can the lawyers please comment on this one???

PG. 1 - http://www.scribd.com/doc/236934829/Talisker-filing-on-bond-for-Park-City-Mountain-Resort#download

ERRRR......so if my guestimates of PCMR's annual profits are accurate at $35m-$50m per year, and if my math is right......

.........Vail is asking for a $200M - $300M bond.

^ Above is where I'm guessing, based on what I read in the arguement. PCMR, who had the unredacted version of the document, thought Vail was asking for $201M. They changed their mind at some point.

They are basicly asking for half their profits, times 12x. That's what the document says. That is a HUGE number. POWDR would have to put up this cash within about a week. Granted, the judge may not set such a high bond, but they do make extremely convincing arguements in that document and calculate it all out. The actual bond could easily be well north of $100M. PCMR has to come up with this cash in about a week, or find financing and put up collateral. If they can't come up with the bond, they can't appeal, and a large judgement could potentally drive them (PCMR) into bankruptcy. Putting the resort up as collateral leaves them exposed to losing the whole thing when they lose the appeal. These guys are hosed.

I found this helpful:

http://www.jonesday.com/files/Publi...-64d80a235d12/Spring_2008_The_Appeal_Bond.pdf

Besides me, and the forbes article, nobody else was talking about the bond being over $100M. Everyone else thinks maybe $10m or something.

I made the observation that the requested bond would be extremely high, and am basically correct, and far more correct than everyone else.

 

[VTKilarney]

So your long winded diatribe boils down to this: Yes, I was correct in stating that you predicted that the request would be for $200 to $300 million when in actuality it was for $123.9 million.

Just making sure. You really need to stop inferring that I am asking/saying anything more than I am. You are comically defensive about things.

 

[Highway Star]

So your long winded diatribe essentially boiled down to this: Yes, I was correct that you predicted that the request would be for $200 to $300 million when in actuality it was for $123.9 million.

Just making sure. You really need to stop inferring that I am asking/saying anything more than I am. You are comically defensive about things.

No, it's just that your reading comprehension is that of a 3rd grader. Go back and try harder.

The fact that today PCMR thought that Vail was asking for $201M, means that at the time, my guess was correct - 100% correct. My guess was that Vail, WAS asking for $200-300M in an arguement submitted a couple weeks ago.

Vail CHANGED what they were asking for, today.

Oh sorry I forgot, you're still an idiot. Sorry bro. Just keep on insisting 2+2=5. Don't you have a conspiracy theory, republican budget proposal, or sheep to get back to?

 

[VTKilarney]

I see... so your argument hinges on PCMR being right rather than Talisker. Interesting...

The only thing we know is that Talisker has requested $123.9 million. Talisker did not say that this is a change from a prior request. Rather, they "refuted" PCMR's assertion that Talisker's request was for $201 million. If you want to believe that PCMR was not engaging in gamesmanship, so be it. I'll take the more conservative approach and rely upon Talisker's representations.

 

[VTKilarney]

Reading through the twitter feeds of people that were live-tweeting the hearing, nobody is suggesting that Talisker indicated that it was changing its bond request. For example, one person tweeted: "Talisker says bond amount they're seeking is NOT $201 million, it's only $123.9 million." This is consistent with the other tweet that said that Talisker "refuted" PCMR's assertion.

It appears that PCMR was indeed either stupid or engaging in gamesmanship.

 

[VTKilarney]

In other Utah court news, a federal judge just struck down a portion of Utah's statute outlawing polygamy.
View attachment 13472

 

[Highway Star]

Reading through the twitter feeds of people that were live-tweeting the hearing, nobody is suggesting that Talisker indicated that it was changing its bond request. For example, one person tweeted: "Talisker says bond amount they're seeking is NOT $201 million, it's only $123.9 million." This is consistent with the other tweet that said that Talisker "refuted" PCMR's assertion.

It appears that PCMR was indeed either stupid or engaging in gamesmanship.

This is like arguing with wet tissue paper.

 

[VTKilarney]

Do you have any proof that Vail changed their request as you indicated?

 

[Smellytele]

You guys are both just argumentative and have filled up pages saying the same thing over and over again. useless babble about useless babble between lawyers.

 

[VTKilarney]

I'm happy to extend an olive branch if Highway Star is willing to accept.

 

[skiNEwhere]

Highway star is running TrollBot v9.32, good luck with that. His default response if a parameter isn't met will be "You're an idiot"

 

[thetrailboss]

:roll:

Here's what you need to know:

* Talisker wants a $123.9 million bond for the 2014-2015 season. That is based on legal fees, rental value, etc.;
* PCMR thinks the bond should be MUCH less....like $6.9-10 million. They argued that Talisker is screwed because the land is an "isolated island" and that Vail's rental figures are WAY too high because they are paying more than FMV;
* The Judge said he will rule on September 3rd.

 

[Edd]

HS makes me laugh, though. I'm a fan. I've paid for worse entertainment than this thread.

 

[jaytrem]

They argued that Talisker is screwed because the land is an "isolated island" and that Vail's rental figures are WAY too high because they are paying more than FMV;

Yeah, it's an island that happens to be connected to a 3rd ski area that might be interested in adding some terrain if things don't totally work out for Vail.

 

[AdironRider]

But it isn't connected.

Prediction time!

Bond splits the difference and comes in around 50-60 million, Powdr walks. Vail is forced into the reverse position and gets to pay another 10-15 mill a year to lease the base facilities and water rights.

MTN stock tanks.

Cummings looks like an idiot, but like Donald Sterling, will ultimately get paid a nice ransom.

 

[jaytrem]

But it isn't connected.

It's connected the same way NJ is connected to NY, thus NJ is not an island. It shares a boundary.

My prediction, PCMR eventually sells and Vail also picks up Killington and the Vegas area. More fun to go with a wild prediction.

 

[VTKilarney]

My prediction: The parties settle prior to the September 4th ruling on the bond. According to Twitter, the attorneys met with the judge in chambers. After that meeting the judge did an about-face and decided against making a ruling today on the amount of the bond.

My second prediction: Highway Star will say "You're an idiot" in the near future.

 

[skiNEwhere]

My prediction: The winner of the suit will be determined by ski-off

 

[StevePluvia]

If you go to the summit County tax assessor records webpage, you can look at who owns what parcels.

http://maps.summitcounty.org/flexviewers/countymap/

Thanks -- very helpful to determine how much leverage PCMR has, or alternatively what Talisker will try to foreclose on to satisfy a judgement. I suspect both side will see the bond as a tell re damages.

If that lower property is worth less than a Talisker judgment, talisker ends up getting all of PCMR's goodies for freeeeeee.....

Cummings is an idiot if he doesn't settle this quick, he's got no real leverage and no end game.

 

[StevePluvia]

"Above is where I'm guessing, based on what I read in the arguement. PCMR, who had the unredacted version of the document, thought Vail was asking for $201M. They changed their mind at some point."

As someone else mentioned, (if you read the bond memo from talisker its pretty clear), both parties used various methods to argue why the bond should be xyz. with different methods you get different totals. One of Taliskers methods came to 120ish another 200ish.