Peak Resort Acquisitions

[thetrailboss]

Hard to draw skiers when your snowmaking capacity is a mere fraction of the other two. Yes they get a lot of snow, but so does every other northern VT ski area. They can only do 500 gpm up from the base and 500 gpm up or down from the mid-mountain pond. Think about that: full bore water maximization: 13-20 ground guns/low E guns or ±6 fan guns. It's pitiful.

Wow. That and the old lifts. And the old base area and hotel.

 

[skifastinvt]

To me Shawnee makes a lot more sense than Saddleback. Throwing out possibilities....how about Ragged? Fits the day trip model with the potential of development. Not currently for sale that I'm aware of, but for the right price anything is possible.

 

[ThinkSnow]

Maybe my memory is off, but I recall it being pretty steep and windy. Now not App Gap windy, but close.

It is somewhat windy and its all uphill the whole way, but I honestly don't feel its terribly steep. Was there last on Monday, Jan 19. Snowed the entire drive up, and the whole day we were skiing in at least 9" of fresh. The parking lot was packed, but only cars I saw having problems were sedans trying to get out of the lot at the end of the day. With a running start they were fine & on their way.

 

[deadheadskier]

To me Shawnee makes a lot more sense than Saddleback. Throwing out possibilities....how about Ragged? Fits the day trip model with the potential of development. Not currently for sale that I'm aware of, but for the right price anything is possible.

Ragged is owned by a very large conglomerate.

http://pacific-group.com/index.php

I agree, everything has a price, but I don't think Pacific has gotten the cash they want out of real estate sales there yet to warrant selling it. I would think they'd lose money selling now.

 

[Newpylong]

Hard to draw skiers when your snowmaking capacity is a mere fraction of the other two. Yes they get a lot of snow, but so does every other northern VT ski area. They can only do 500 gpm up from the base and 500 gpm up or down from the mid-mountain pond. Think about that: full bore water maximization: 13-20 ground guns/low E guns or ±6 fan guns. It's pitiful.

You sure abou this? 500 gpm equates to about a dozen max air/water guns assuming air is not a limitation. That is essentially a single pump. This is the same capacity that little Whaleback has. For a hill the size of Bolton, only being to run 12 guns simultaneously means very little terrain would be open without sufficient natural snow. We are talking 1 run off each peak, perhaps 2 if they're lucky.

 

[VTKilarney]

According to their website, in 2008 they increased their capacity to 1,000 gallons per minute:
http://www.boltonvalley.com/about-us/environmental-initiatives/snowmaking

 

[prsboogie]

I just posted this on the Saddleback thread but though I'd share here too

Bump - pure gossip from a condo owner I am friends with but when I mentioned the rumors about regarding Peaks, she said the group that has been seen around a foreigners with alleged "deep pockets" and show up to the meetings in a private helicopter. Take it for what it's worth as she isn't on any boards but has a very vested interest in the season opening since she has a slope side condo.

 

[Jully]

Ragged is owned by a very large conglomerate.

http://pacific-group.com/index.php

I agree, everything has a price, but I don't think Pacific has gotten the cash they want out of real estate sales there yet to warrant selling it. I would think they'd lose money selling now.

Definitely not Ragged. Their new GM is doing a pretty good job in NH opinion and they're sinking money into the place like crazy these days with the condo's, pinnacle stuff, and the new HSQ. Plus last year was pretty profitable from what I can tell.

I'd be pretty happy if it was Shawnee. It'd be nice if they went for the West Side development, but Peaks doesn't seem too aggressive in expansion or real estate as others have said.

Shawnee gets a decent pull from MA too. The lot is full of MA cars every weekend. They have a nice family atmosphere that only a few NH mountains match. The more I think about it the more Shawnee really fits the company's profile. However, Shawnee is a proudly family owned mountain that's currently quite well run. I have a difficult time seeing the family give that up to a recently public company.

Don't really think it's Saddleback anymore judging by the foreign investors comment.

 

[doublediamond]

According to their website, in 2008 they increased their capacity to 1,000 gallons per minute:
http://www.boltonvalley.com/about-us/environmental-initiatives/snowmaking

500 up + 500 up or down from mid lake = 1000 last I checked.

 

[thebigo]

Don't see why a 1986 triple couldn't handle it. I just don't think its a very big priority right now. The 2 HSQs at Attitash function great and serve the needs of the vast majority of skiers there.

Disagree, we are currenty looking for a ski condo and attitash checks every box:

- less than two hour drive
- multi mountain pass with southern nh night skiing area and late spring area
- affordable
- year round activities
- local non-skiing activities for when the wife and daughter dont feel like skiing

unfortunately I cannot tolerate the 20 minute ride for the best skiing on mountain. It is always assumed that a hsq is needed to the top, even a mid mountain to summit fixed grip would be tolerable.

 

[Terry]

Hard to say regarding Shawnee. Chet has owned it since 1994 and is 64 years old. Could be looking to retire. Not sure what sort of involvement the rest of his family has.


Terry, on the forums here probably would know most about the long term plans for Shawnee.

I have heard nothing about a potential sale. Chet brought in his son Jeff a couple years ago as assistant manager I think. I know he plays a role in the decision making.

 

[doublediamond]

Disagree, we are currenty looking for a ski condo and attitash checks every box:

- less than two hour drive
- multi mountain pass with southern nh night skiing area and late spring area
- affordable
- year round activities
- local non-skiing activities for when the wife and daughter dont feel like skiing

unfortunately I cannot tolerate the 20 minute ride for the best skiing on mountain. It is always assumed that a hsq is needed to the top, even a mid mountain to summit fixed grip would be tolerable.

Not happening.

Too small of trails without significant USFS permitting/ too upper level for the masses/ not enough return on inve$tment.

 

[Jully]

Not happening.

Too small of trails without significant USFS permitting/ too upper level for the masses/ not enough return on inve$tment.

Exactly. There's what, 3 narrow trails off the summit and besides the majority of attitash skiers aren't looking for narrow and more challenging. There's a reason the Flying Yankee went in where it did.

I like the idea of a mid mountain triple to the top though. I'd rather see a mid mountain lift at Wildcat before attitash though. Not that we will see either anytime soon.

 

[prsboogie]

I wonder if they could add a carpet to the summit quad and crank it up? I know it would be difficult with the lack of room behind the base terminal though

 

[Newpylong]

There are other mountains that have only 3 runs served by a HSQ but not many without this lift to the summit like Attitash. None of the summit runs come anywhere close to narrow. The permitting for an in place replacement would not be insurmountable. Operational costs could be partually offset by removing Top Notch. Not having a high speed lift there is the number one reason why their user base will not increase and why many dislike the mountain.

 

[whalebackmtn]

Today is the last day for whaleback mountain season pass sale! Go get your pass now for 25% off. Benefits for season pass holders include: 50% killington lift tickets, up to 50% mount sunapee lift tickets, season tune up at golf and ski warehouse and whaleback mountain on snow clinics!!!!

Ski you at whaleback!!!!

 

[deadheadskier]

There are other mountains that have only 3 runs served by a HSQ but not many without this lift to the summit like Attitash. None of the summit runs come anywhere close to narrow. The permitting for an in place replacement would not be insurmountable. Operational costs could be partually offset by removing Top Notch. Not having a high speed lift there is the number one reason why their user base will not increase and why many dislike the mountain.

On ski area challenges in the past the responses have varied from too little downhill capacity, not enough skier visits to justify increased capacity, too expensive to operate a third hsq; basically anything they can come up with to not drop the cash. The running expense seems a likely concern for them in that they often run the Bear quad slower than any HSQ I've ever been on.

I tend to wonder how much more business a new lift would bring mainly because the MWV is a pain to drive to for many. I really like the trails off the Peak; Ptarmigan, Tim's and Idiots all have great pitch and Tightrope has great character. 14 minute ride certainly sucks though. A conveyor would bring it to 9-10 minutes for short money and would be a huge improvement. I'd love to hear their reason for not doing that. Could be space as was just mentioned.

 

[marcski]

On ski area challenges in the past the responses have varied from too little downhill capacity, not enough skier visits to justify increased capacity, too expensive to operate a third hsq; basically anything they can come up with to not drop the cash. The running expense seems a likely concern for them in that they often run the Bear quad slower than any HSQ I've ever been on.

I tend to wonder how much more business a new lift would bring mainly because the MWV is a pain to drive to for many. I really like the trails off the Peak; Ptarmigan, Tim's and Idiots all have great pitch and Tightrope has great character. 14 minute ride certainly sucks though. A conveyor would bring it to 9-10 minutes for short money and would be a huge improvement. I'd love to hear their reason for not doing that. Could be space as was just mentioned.

A conveyor loading carpet cutting the ride time by over 33%?? I find that very hard to believe.

 

[deadheadskier]

That was the result at Shawnee Peak, Maine when they put in a conveyor for their summit triple.

If you think about it, the lift is 6400 feet long. A goof HSQ will run 1000-1100 feet per minute. 650 per minute seems reasonable for a conveyor load.

 

[doublediamond]

650 per minute seems reasonable for a conveyor load.

Max 600 legal. The Summit Triple is 500. How fast they run it day-in/day-out to minimize stoppages is probably about 475. It's a lower-than-normal capacity triple.

The rule of thumb is 100-ft width of trails per 600 pph. The trails are only about 250 ft wide off the top, which is why the triple has a capacity of 1500 pph.