Peak Resorts: The New ASC?

[JimG.]

This isn't anything against Mt Snow and what they are trying to do. I just don't see how EB-5 is justified for this (and many other projects). EB-5 needs to be much stricter with this job creation metric.

I don't hold anything against Mt. Snow either, or Jay for that matter. Jay just had the bad luck to get associated with a thief.

I think the EB5 program should just be honest and forget about dubious metrics like "job creation" and say "we want to get foreign investment money and we're giving fast track citizenship as a reward". Once the money is given these people should get their citizenship.
Because these investors who gave large sums of money are the real losers here and that sucks.

 

[steamboat1]

I don't hold anything against Mt. Snow either, or Jay for that matter. Jay just had the bad luck to get associated with a thief.

I think the EB5 program should just be honest and forget about dubious metrics like "job creation" and say "we want to get foreign investment money and we're giving fast track citizenship as a reward". Once the money is given these people should get their citizenship.
Because these investors who gave large sums of money are the real losers here and that sucks.

Kind of like the Clinton Foundation. You grease my hand I'll grease yours.

 

[JimG.]

You grease my hand I'll grease yours.

It's the honest solution.

Do you think the foreign investors were in on the scam? Do you think they were stupid enough to give the money knowing it would be stolen? The money is gone in the defense of a crook. Those people got screwed so how much does it really cost to at least make them citizens.

Or are you offended by the program itself and wish to see it fail?

I think the logical answers there are no and no.

 

[cdskier]

It's the honest solution.

Do you think the foreign investors were in on the scam? Do you think they were stupid enough to give the money knowing it would be stolen? The money is gone in the defense of a crook. Those people got screwed so how much does it really cost to at least make them citizens.

Or are you offended by the program itself and wish to see it fail?

I think the logical answers there are no and no.

I agree people were screwed and duped and that is unfortunate for sure. I do feel bad for those people and hope they somehow either get some money back or get a green card. I have not ever been in favor of this program though. From when I first learned about EB-5 I said it sounded like simply a way for people to buy their way into the US. I do not like that whole concept. I'm not saying I want to see it "fail", but I would not be at all upset if the program was simply eliminated going forward.

 

[Smellytele]

I agree people were screwed and duped and that is unfortunate for sure. I do feel bad for those people and hope they somehow either get some money back or get a green card. I have not ever been in favor of this program though. From when I first learned about EB-5 I said it sounded like simply a way for people to buy their way into the US. I do not like that whole concept. I'm not saying I want to see it "fail", but I would not be at all upset if the program was simply eliminated going forward.

When you see a program backed by the US government you may think hey this might be legit. Obviously it was not. The whole program is shady from the developers getting "free money" to the investor getting a 500k green card. In vermont you have the added agency where employees use it as a stepping stone to get other jobs with companies they were helping. When the investors call the process out it is like the people who call the police and say "my apartment was broken into and they stole my weed".

 

[BenedictGomez]

I think the EB5 program should just be honest and forget about dubious metrics like "job creation" and say "we want to get foreign investment money and we're giving fast track citizenship as a reward". Once the money is given these people should get their citizenship.

The politicians cant do that "politically", because then it's straight-up, "pay for US citizenship", which is rich foreigners jumping the line in front of the poor and middle class.

Which, of course, is precisely what EB-5 really is.

So the politicians needed to invent a BS reason for why it's okay, to dupe naive Americans into believing EB-5 is a godsend for rural areas (well, until it "expanded" to Chicago & New York City of course = ROFL), and that's done with the phony "jobs created" nonsense which is greatly expanded fraudulently to hit whatever target is necessary via the "indirect jobs" metric.

Again, creative accounting that a business cant legally get away with, but if the US Government does this, it's A-okay, because they're the ones with the guns, bayonets, and keys to the jail.

 

[JimG.]

When you see a program backed by the US government you may think hey this might be legit. Obviously it was not. The whole program is shady from the developers getting "free money" to the investor getting a 500k green card. In vermont you have the added agency where employees use it as a stepping stone to get other jobs with companies they were helping. When the investors call the process out it is like the people who call the police and say "my apartment was broken into and they stole my weed".

Interesting; the impression I am getting is that many folks view this as illegal immigration for rich people. At the least line jumping in front of less wealthy applicants.

I can certainly understand why people might feel that way.

 

[deadheadskier]

The politicians cant do that "politically", because then it's straight-up, "pay for US citizenship", which is rich foreigners jumping the line in front of the poor and middle class.

.

They could. Other countries do. Right now PQ has their investment Visa application open. You have to give $800K to the Province as a zero interest guaranteed loan for five years and show a net worth of $1.6M that has been legally obtained. That gets you permanent resident status and you get your money back in five years. They are accepting 1900 investors, the majority coming from China. I remember being curious about what it would take to live up there after loving QC during a vacation 6 years ago. Jim's recent vacation home thoughts on Quebec had me curious on the details.

http://www.immigration.ca/en/quebec-immigrant-investor-program.html

I know New Zealand had a similar program when I was looking to work abroad about 12 years ago.

 

[JimG.]

They could. Other countries do. Right now PQ has their investment Visa application open. You have to give $800K to the Province as a zero interest guaranteed loan for five years and show a net worth of $1.6M that has been legally obtained. That gets you permanent resident status and you get your money back in five years. They are accepting 1900 investors, the majority coming from China. I remember being curious about what it would take to live up there after loving QC during a vacation 6 years ago. Jim's recent vacation home thoughts on Quebec had me curious on the details.

http://www.immigration.ca/en/quebec-immigrant-investor-program.html

I know New Zealand had a similar program when I was looking to work abroad about 12 years ago.

Amazing! The Canadian equivalent of EB5 but without the window dressing of job creation. I would feel more comfortable with a government backed guarantee to get my money back after 5 years too.

But I'm not handing $800,000 to anyone for free for 5 years even with the payback guarantee.

The upshot of all this is that VT is looking like an option again.

 

[steamboat1]

http://vtdigger.org/2016/09/14/leahy-eyes-provision-give-defrauded-eb-5-investors-break/

 

[BenedictGomez]

Sens. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., and Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, are pressing for financial reporting requirements that would better protect investors. The two senators say fraud is “rampant” in the program

Wait, what? Leahy finally found Jesus?

What a freaking fraud. He's knee-deep in this entire program more than any other politician in the land, and never uttered an unkind EB-5 word before this news broke.

Politician being a politician.

 

[thetrailboss]

I feel uneasy about just giving the investors amnesty. I don't know why, but something just seems wrong. Get their money back and let them go after Quiros in a civil case.


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[Harvey]

Wait, what? Leahy finally found Jesus?

What a freaking fraud. He's knee-deep in this entire program more than any other politician in the land, and never uttered an unkind EB-5 word before this news broke.

Politician being a politician.

I agree with BG. :-o

Seems like a pretty thin veneer.

 

[steamboat1]

I feel uneasy about just giving the investors amnesty. I don't know why, but something just seems wrong. Get their money back and let them go after Quiros in a civil case.


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The proposal doesn't give investors amnesty. Only the opportunity to invest in other EB-5 projects to meet the job creation requirement. Who knows the whole program might expire at the end of this month.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I feel uneasy about just giving the investors amnesty. I don't know why, but something just seems wrong. Get their money back and let them go after Quiros in a civil case.

Although I'm sympathetic to the investors, it would be terrible if they were made whole in every fashion. That completely removes the moral hazard necessary for any investment, and only provides fuel for additional scams such as this.

 

[yeggous]

Although I'm sympathetic to the investors, it would be terrible if they were made whole in every fashion. That completely removes the moral hazard necessary for any investment, and only provides fuel for additional scams such as this.

Usually I would agree, but fraud is a different story.


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[steamboat1]

From the article:

However, reforms proposed in EB-5 legislation introduced in the House Judiciary Committee earlier this week don’t go quite that far.
Instead, the bill provides greater flexibility for defrauded investors to reinvest in amended or new projects, and, provided the investments still produce the required 10 jobs, allows them to obtain U.S. citizenship.
In addition, the legislation would allow investors to use proceeds from any settlements stemming from fraud allegations to reinvest that money in a new or amended project, and, if that investment creates the required jobs, the investor would again be eligible for U.S. citizenship.
For example, foreign investors in the biomedical center project could use money recouped for them by the receiver to reinvest in another qualified EB-5 project anywhere in the country. Goldberg is working to recover assets from monetary settlements with banks and those accused of fraud. In a recently announced settlement with Citibank, for example, Goldberg is seeking $13.3 million.
Should the new investment produce 10 jobs, under the reforms proposed, the defrauded investor would become eligible for U.S. citizenship.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Usually I would agree, but fraud is a different story.

Tell that to Enron investors.

I realize it stinks and seems entirely unfair, but there needs to be strong incentive in place (i.e. losing my entire investment) to prevent future wrongs.

If people look at EB-5 2.0 and say, "well......this is kinda shady.....but...heck, the government will bail me out if it's fraud anyway", that's a HUGE problem, regardless of what investment or asset class you're referring to. At very least put a cap on what they can recover, sort of like FDIC insurance.

 

[deadheadskier]

I would think the bigger anger would be losing out on the path to citizenship more than the financial loss.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I would think the bigger anger would be losing out on the path to citizenship more than the financial loss.

For some, most definitely, but keep in mind that's being explored as possibly being "covered" as well.