Ragged gets a new GM

[millerm277]

I heard rumors, from a friend of the new ownership, that one option mentioned for the expansion area is an uphill only pod. Some of it is accessible now, but I have no idea how much clearing the locals do.

It's worth pointing out that Ragged sits in a relative snow desert. They get some of the most limited snowfall in the area.

Obviously this year is far above the averages, but it means their glades aren't open that often and natural snow-only terrain has a very short window of being open in many years.

I think it's fine for a couple years if you're working on an infrastructure buildout and have the trails cleared before you get the money/coordination for the lift/snowmaking done, but I don't think it makes much sense to try to build an "uphill-only" natural pod that you're leaving that way long-term at Ragged with the low average snowfall totals. It's just going to be closed the vast majority of the average season.

 

[thebigo]

one of the pgri guys was on storm skiing before they sold ragged, on the topic of pinnacle he said there was zero chance they would ever realize any ROI

Ragged first priority needs to be snowmaking, their trail rollout is brutally slow.

next a surface lift up wildride offers a number of benefits:

-get the park crowd out of the six pack line
-move NHARA program from yankee to lower ridge, gets the race crowd out of the spear line and gives yankee back to the public on weekends
-servicing the school and youth races on main street gets another chunk of racers out of the six pack line

they could also light the park and lower ridge on select busy days, run it similar to cannon, something to keep the kids busy while parents buy overpriced beer in the bar

 

[chuckstah]

It's worth pointing out that Ragged sits in a relative snow desert. They get some of the most limited snowfall in the area.

Obviously this year is far above the averages, but it means their glades aren't open that often and natural snow-only terrain has a very short window of being open in many years.

I think it's fine for a couple years if you're working on an infrastructure buildout and have the trails cleared before you get the money/coordination for the lift/snowmaking done, but I don't think it makes much sense to try to build an "uphill-only" natural pod that you're leaving that way long-term at Ragged with the low average snowfall totals. It's just going to be closed the vast majority of the average season.

An uphill pod would be super cheap. Clear a trail or 2 a year, and open it when there's enough snow on the ground. The most likely option is to do nothing and it will remain largely as it is. As mentioned , putting a lift in will likely never bring in enough revenue to make it worthwhile. I'll take the uphill pod to spread people out just a bit over the status quo, though it's likely not happening.

 

[AdironRider]

Except this is New England, so those trails will require constant maintenance. Those costs aren't insignificant, and it makes basically zero business sense for the 5-10 days a year it would be open.

 

[sull1102]

I do think the Pinnacle expansion would be a true difference maker and move Ragged up a peg in the Boston day tripper market. I’d even suggest that they’re in the only window of opportunity they have to do it because the loft fleet is rock solid, you figure even a standard rebuild for the 6 is 5 years away(figure that 30 year mark is when that becomes a serious issue looming over the entire business). A pre-owned fixed grip quad and cut a couple trails a year here and there while adding pipe and guns as you go. This is all also relying on a great marketing department to push hard.

It’s funny, before Saturday I was totally in line with everyone here in that they just need to keep on keeping on, but once I saw those crowds goddamn haha.

 

[thebigo]

It’s funny, before Saturday I was totally in line with everyone here in that they just need to keep on keeping on, but once I saw those crowds goddamn haha.

They are busy maybe a dozen days in a good year, half that in a bad year. Total build out of Pinnacle would have to cost 8 figures, assuming they borrow the money and depending on the term, monthly payment would be six figures. How are they possibly going to recoup the investment with a limited season? There is a reason every recent expansion has involved real estate, house lots add up faster than lift tickets, beer and chicken tenders.

Podcast #119: Pacific Group Resorts VP and CMO Christian Knapp

Getting to know the owner of Jay Peak and five other North American ski areas

www.stormskiing.com

 

[snoseek]

While its not totally dead there midweek, its hard to imagine justifying building all that out when the chairs are ski on. Somewhere like sunapee which always seems to fill seats makes more sense.

Right now is the first time I've skied the place fully open. Its got plenty of space on the mtn. Pinnacle wouldn't move the needle so much because imo its not gonna really increase the vert.

Also has anyone in the history of ever skied the top glades off spear and not hit rock? Seriously every time for me, my ptex skills are getting real good

 

[Smellytele]

There is a reason every recent expansion has involved real estate, house lots add up faster than lift tickets, beer and chicken tenders.

Looking at real estate is rather short sighted though. Once it is sold the money stops coming in. Lift tix, beer and chicken tenders keep the money coming in.

 

[thebigo]

Looking at real estate is rather short sighted though. Once it is sold the money stops coming in. Lift tix, beer and chicken tenders keep the money coming in.

right but looking at the SL west mountain model, idea was to pay for expansion by selling house lots, then realize long term revenue that results from improved beginner experience along with added visits by people staying in the new houses.

question is whether there is any demand for real estate at ragged, I am skeptical based on their stalled effort to build cluster housing on the old golf course

 

[drjeff]

right but looking at the SL west mountain model, idea was to pay for expansion by selling house lots, then realize long term revenue that results from improved beginner experience along with added visits by people staying in the new houses.

question is whether there is any demand for real estate at ragged, I am skeptical based on their stalled effort to build cluster housing on the old golf course

Is the there the demand for a bunch of mainly ski based vacation homes in a region where there are plenty of lake based vacation homes near ski areas there?? That is the multi million dollar question I am guessing.....

 

[Smellytele]

right but looking at the SL west mountain model, idea was to pay for expansion by selling house lots, then realize long term revenue that results from improved beginner experience along with added visits by people staying in the new houses.

question is whether there is any demand for real estate at ragged, I am skeptical based on their stalled effort to build cluster housing on the old golf course

But their end game isn’t to build out the ski area further with the funds from the real estate as it was with SL.

 

[Newpylong]

The mid-week issue is a good one, the place is pretty much a ghost town. The ROI on the expansion would never happen in anyone's lifetime. There are probably more concrete ideas that the new owners have that are better bang for the buck. I know getting their own air compression was high up on PGRs list. Getting all terrain open by the second week of January vs 2/1 would really be a game changer.