RFID tickets

[bvibert]

I know a few ski areas around the NE have gone to RFID. Has anyone here used them? I really like the concept, but I haven't heard any first hand feedback?

Do you think areas that currently bar code scan tickets will start switching to RFID? It seems a lot more efficient.

 

[thetrailboss]

I used it at Zermatt in 2002 . I've seen it at Squaw Valley and Alta. It works pretty well overall and the gates do a nice job keeping the crowds moving along.

 

[thetrailboss]

I know Jay used it this season. I saw that, like other places, they charged you for the card that you could reload and reuse. I'm not sure how it worked there. I am surprised that more places don't use it, but I could see it as being an expensive thing to set up.

 

[deadheadskier]

I used it at Jay. They don't always read so well. Three of the lift rides I took that day, I had to unzip my pocket and fiddle around with the ticket to get the gate on the Jet to open. On one of those occasions, a chair went up empty because of it.

I think the best solution would be to have the RFID on a wicket just like a lift ticket. It would probably result in fewer problems in being read.

 

[drjeff]

I know Jay used it this season. I saw that, like other places, they charged you for the card that you could reload and reuse. I'm not sure how it worked there. I am surprised that more places don't use it, but I could see it as being an expensive thing to set up.

This topic was brought up at the Passholders meeting at Mount Snow this past March, and that was the answer given, cost. The upfront investment was quite substantial (no actual $$ figure was given), and then for many base area lifts, you still need actual live employees to help pair up people to send up full chairs (the goal of pretty much every general manager and lift ops crew on a busy day). So while the potential is there, and it has been proven to work, the reality is would a system like this be worth an extra dollar or two to an every day ticket price or another amount to a season pass price for it implementation? Since lets be honest, we all know that that's what a good amount of areas that would install this system would do

 

[marcski]

Hate to break up this moderator chat you know with just a Muggle...but so be it.

I think they're great. Alta has had it for a few years and it is awesome IMHO. No fiddling with the pass..just put the pass in one dedicated pocket in the pants. And, as long as they put the scanner far enough back so you can have a few chairs ready to load between the scanner and the load point, it will solve any issues that DHS encountered at Jay.

And, I think we've had a few discussions on here about them before.

 

[Glenn]

How do they work in practice? Do they have gates or turnstyles?

Like Jeff mentioned, it was brought up at Mt Snow...and on the forums over there. I can see how it would make things a bit quicker. You may still need someone there double checking passes though. I know Mt Snow rewards their employees when they find someone with a fake pass/ticket or who is sharing a season pass.

 

[bvibert]

as long as they put the scanner far enough back so you can have a few chairs ready to load between the scanner and the load point, it will solve any issues that DHS encountered at Jay.

Putting them far enough back to allow for a buffer to form is key, IMHO.

And, I think we've had a few discussions on here about them before.

We have, but the threads I found before posting this one were about individual mountains that have started using RFID. If I missed something I'll be happy to join this thread with an older one.

 

[bvibert]

How do they work in practice? Do they have gates or turnstyles?

Like Jeff mentioned, it was brought up at Mt Snow...and on the forums over there. I can see how it would make things a bit quicker. You may still need someone there double checking passes though. I know Mt Snow rewards their employees when they find someone with a fake pass/ticket or who is sharing a season pass.

The systems I've seen are turnstiles. I wonder how well they work for newer skiers who are still unstable on their skis?

Yes, you'd still need someone there to oversee things, which does negate some of the advantage I guess. In my mind those people could shift more of their attention to line management than they would have otherwise.

 

[Geoff]

This topic was brought up at the Passholders meeting at Mount Snow this past March, and that was the answer given, cost. The upfront investment was quite substantial (no actual $$ figure was given), and then for many base area lifts, you still need actual live employees to help pair up people to send up full chairs (the goal of pretty much every general manager and lift ops crew on a busy day). So while the potential is there, and it has been proven to work, the reality is would a system like this be worth an extra dollar or two to an every day ticket price or another amount to a season pass price for it implementation? Since lets be honest, we all know that that's what a good amount of areas that would install this system would do

Nonsense. Read-only passive RFID tags are $0.10 to $0.15 each in any kind of quantity.

At Killington, they need two employees per lift on quad chairs and gondolas to scan bar codes. RFID gates would pay for themselves very quickly. The employees could instead focus on keeping the chairs full and policing the lift line bargers and you'd only need half as many employees.

 

[Glenn]

The systems I've seen are turnstiles. I wonder how well they work for newer skiers who are still unstable on their skis?

Yes, you'd still need someone there to oversee things, which does negate some of the advantage I guess. In my mind those people could shift more of their attention to line management than they would have otherwise.

They could probably have the line people randomly spot check passes. Just to make sure it's the passholder...and not a friend out borrowing it.

 

[o3jeff]

They could probably have the line people randomly spot check passes. Just to make sure it's the passholder...and not a friend out borrowing it.

I never understood how they know if it is you or not when you got a helmet/hat, googles and sometime a mask covering your face.

 

[bvibert]

They could probably have the line people randomly spot check passes. Just to make sure it's the passholder...and not a friend out borrowing it.

Yup, that's a definite hole in the system. Like you said, some human interaction should help discourage that, hopefully. I imagine the gates could be setup to display the passholder's picture on a screen, to avoid having to ask the customer to pull it out of their pocket.

 

[bvibert]

I never understood how they know if it is you or not when you got a helmet/hat, googles and sometime a mask covering your face.

It's not easy to do. Probably only the most blatant get caught with any regularity (like a guy using a girls pass).

 

[riverc0il]

I know a few ski areas around the NE have gone to RFID. Has anyone here used them? I really like the concept, but I haven't heard any first hand feedback?

Do you think areas that currently bar code scan tickets will start switching to RFID? It seems a lot more efficient.

I used them at Jay. They are fine by me. Some benefits include ticket in your pocket, no more cutting wickets, not having to show a ticket to a lift associate, not slowing the line down due to inefficient lifties checking for tickets, and most importantly, folks trying to sneak onto a lift without paying are caught (I saw this twice this past season, I can't even imagine how often it happens). Negatives include having to pay for the RFID card (at least at Jay) and when the scan doesn't work, it slows the line down.

 

[riverc0il]

I used it at Jay. They don't always read so well. Three of the lift rides I took that day, I had to unzip my pocket and fiddle around with the ticket to get the gate on the Jet to open. On one of those occasions, a chair went up empty because of it.

I think the best solution would be to have the RFID on a wicket just like a lift ticket. It would probably result in fewer problems in being read.

I think the reasons that the cards were not working that well that day is because the snow level was so low so the target was high for average or shorter sized skiers. If they could adjust the height of the target, that would be helpful for late season. Normally, there are not as many mis-reads.

 

[Glenn]

I never understood how they know if it is you or not when you got a helmet/hat, googles and sometime a mask covering your face.

Either do I. But like bvib says, it must be the ones who aren't really smart about it. I've seen a few people get picked out of line right in front of us. It usually goes like this:

"What your birthday?"

"Uhhhhhh"

And that's that. They've actually asked me my DOB a handful of times. Maybe a lot of it is randomness.

 

[gmcunni]

Either do I. But like bvib says, it must be the ones who aren't really smart about it. I've seen a few people get picked out of line right in front of us. It usually goes like this:

"What your birthday?"

"Uhhhhhh"

And that's that. They've actually asked me my DOB a handful of times. Maybe a lot of it is randomness.

wait, when the hot chick checking my tickets said "What your sign?" it wasn't because she was hitting on me?

 

[TheBEast]

I used them at Jay. A couple of observations. People did have trouble with them scan at times for whatever reason. If you use one of their discount programs (other mountain passholder, employee, etc.) you can't pre-load that onto a card, you end up using a single-use ticket, which was a pain for us who were there for 4 days and had to go to customer service every day on Tram side (we were staying State Side). Some of us had trouble if you had an previous day ticket in the same pocket as the current day ticket.

On the plus side Jay ran some outstanding last minute deals that you could pre-load onto the card via the web beforehand which was good and lowered the ticket cost of our trip for some.

Bottom-line, I think it's a step in the right direction for a lot of places. For Jay with minimal lifts I can see it working out cost wise, but a place with lots of lifts (K or Snow) that certainly will be a costly investment. I give it another 5-10 years before you start seeing it at more places or something else bigger and better comes along and makes it obsolete.

 

[andyzee]

I've used them in Utah as well as at Jay, love em. Did have a problem here or there, but it was just a matter of making sure they are in a pocket that is close to scanner level and worked fine. I've seen people have problems, but then I've seen scanners have problems as well.