RIP: Jamie Pierre

[MadPatSki]

oh. so comments like "he had it coming", "stupidity", "arrogance", "he's going to kill himself" are all teachable terms. here i thought dying would have been lesson enough to seek your own education for those considering similar interests.

since you guys were there though I can see how being judgemental comes so easy

Agree.

He had toned down his risk taking in recent years due to his family. He took chances, chances that were taken by numerous people that day (I wouldn't have done it, but who am I to judge). Where does the dead man walking talk end? Pierre leaped off crazy cliffs a few years ago and survived. If he would have died last week on a groomer without a helmet, would someone here say..."he had it coming...dead man walking"?

People talking about avy danger, him not having taking an avy course or carrying avy gear, etc. How many people here second guessing him which have skied out-of-bounds (that would include Tuckerman) (or even in-bounds in some parts) have ever taken an avy course (not talking about reading a book or watching a DVD), but an actual avy course with certified instructor?

 

[drjeff]

IIRC the report indicated that Pierre and his friend "did not notice" this avalanche. It just keeps getting weirder.....

oh. so comments like "he had it coming", "stupidity", "arrogance", "he's going to kill himself" are all teachable terms. here i thought dying would have been lesson enough to seek your own education for those considering similar interests.

since you guys were there though I can see how being judgemental comes so easy

If he and his friend either didn't notice or didn't care about that slide (after all it is "easy" to miss a slide that about an acre in size and a foot and a half deep or so ), then I would think that a rational (and please do try and look at this from a rational, NOT emotional side, since emotion can very easily cloud one's judgement) person would say that "stupidity" or "arrogance" could certainly apply when trying to figure out what happend, so that a future event of similar nature won't happen

 

[Gnarcissaro]

If he and his friend either didn't notice or didn't care about that slide (after all it is "easy" to miss a slide that about an acre in size and a foot and a half deep or so ), then I would think that a rational (and please do try and look at this from a rational, NOT emotional side, since emotion can very easily cloud one's judgement) person would say that "stupidity" or "arrogance" could certainly apply when trying to figure out what happend, so that a future event of similar nature won't happen

The write up said that they "remotely" set the first slide. It didn't catch them, so they must have been by it and it slide behind them? If they walked through the debris, then the "stupid" and "arrogant" tags may stick.

We can't Monday morning quarterback these incidents well at all because we weren't there. Didn't see anything. All we got to go on is the pics of the upside-down snowpack and reports of a bunch of slides that day because of it.

What was the weather like that day? Was it snowing and sounds were dummed down by the weather? Maybe it is possible they didn't hear/see the first slide. Who knows? We can speculate til we're blue in the face, but the only one who knows was the guy with Jamie.

Saying, "he had it coming," is poor taste. This was someone's life, husband, father, friend, etc. To say that is shameful.

 

[MadPatSki]

Saying, "he had it coming," is poor taste. This was someone's life, husband, father, friend, etc. To say that is shameful.

Thanks for that post.

 

[kingdom-tele]

If he and his friend either didn't notice or didn't care about that slide (after all it is "easy" to miss a slide that about an acre in size and a foot and a half deep or so ), then I would think that a rational (and please do try and look at this from a rational, NOT emotional side, since emotion can very easily cloud one's judgement) person would say that "stupidity" or "arrogance" could certainly apply when trying to figure out what happend, so that a future event of similar nature won't happen

can you be more clear. which event are we talking about. someone dying in an avalanche or someone living outside of what others consider acceptable

rationally speaking, its easy to miss a lot of things and an absurd notion that you can account for all the variables in any dynamic system, telling yourself you'd be better than anyone else is a farce

 

[drjeff]

can you be more clear. which event are we talking about. someone dying in an avalanche or someone living outside of what others consider acceptable

rationally speaking, its easy to miss a lot of things and an absurd notion that you can account for all the variables in any dynamic system, telling yourself you'd be better than anyone else is a farce

Referencing future situations. There's always risk involved in life. However, if one can learn from past mistakes (in this case you could even say that NOT heading the warnings that the avalanche service put out regarding that day was the mistake made, since one could reasonably guess that he wasn't skiing terrain above his ability level), and not make a similar mistake in the future is important.

Look, and untracked bowl is tempting to us all. But it's not unreasonable to think that in HIGH avalanche conditions, especially without the proper avalanche gear on oneself, that its better off to leave that untracked bowl, untracked until conditions settle. And i'm quite sure that you won't find an alpine guide out there that would disagree with that

 

[kingdom-tele]

Referencing future situations. There's always risk involved in life. However, if one can learn from past mistakes (in this case you could even say that NOT heading the warnings that the avalanche service put out regarding that day was the mistake made, since one could reasonably guess that he wasn't skiing terrain above his ability level), and not make a similar mistake in the future is important.

Look, and untracked bowl is tempting to us all. But it's not unreasonable to think that in HIGH avalanche conditions, especially without the proper avalanche gear on oneself, that its better off to leave that untracked bowl, untracked until conditions settle. And i'm quite sure that you won't find an alpine guide out there that would disagree with that

I'm sure I won't. I wouldn't disagree. and yet people were still skiing and not dying. oddly enough you don't see the peanut gallery throwing them under the bus, only the ONE soul that perished - odd and crass IMO

wonder if the hundreds of others who skied that day and ended with high fives and positive experiences learned anything that would prevent them from doing it again on a day that was so, as pointed out, highly dangerous, learning has some base from accumulated experience, it would be interesting to see how many would not do it again based on having a great day skiing with conflicting objective data

 

[AdironRider]

Hundreds of others werent high fiving and slamming beers afterwards. The mountain kicked them all out due to the high danger, and I doubt they were feeling high on life knowing someone had just died on the hill. I would argue those folks are just lucky they arent dead either, Im pretty sure they would agree.

Quit trying to defend this guys bonehead decision making. I don't want to tour with a guy like you who keeps defending this guys actions as a simple mistake. Do you even have avalanche training, cause as of right now you look like you dont know shit and I certainly dont want to tour with you (AVI II cert here)?

Upside down snowpack, heavy snowfall the last 24 hours, heavy wind loading, double digit temp changes last 24 hours, previous avalanche activity, including by the party in question, the list goes on. These are just some of the warning signs they chose to ignore on that day and paid the price. Tell me again how this wasnt a primo example of a cocky guy thinking he was invincible rather than an honest mistake, cause pretty much every warning sign for getting caught in an avalanche was blatantly ignored, and he didnt even have gear on to begin with.

So just stop, noones saying this is a happy situation, but it damn well shouldnt have happened given all the information available to him on that day. That makes it a retarded situation, and not just a sad case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[kingdom-tele]

who's defending his actions. I never condoned his actions. I never presumed to know every detail of his experience that day either. in addition never claimed it was a simple mistake or that it was even unlucky - talk about how perception isn't reliable, have you even tried to read this without your own interpretation

fact is every time this happens to someone doing something a large portion of the public feels uneasy about it and turns into a shit slingin fight about "how they had it coming", like they didn't know it or recognize the potential. the knee jerk reflex to shuffle these people into an outlier category is bogus. whether your skiing avalanche terrain, flying of a cliff, racing around a track at 200 mph, defusing bombs in a war, operating on special force teams, running into a burning building, or eating a pile of shit food everyday knowing your a diabetic, your time here is marked, if slamming a dead person makes your day more satisfying it says more about you then their perceived decision making - and its sad you or anyone else claiming someone had it coming can't recognize that

ever lost a friend to early in life from an accident? I can assure you your 20/20 hindsight doesn't amount to a pile of shit and furthermore hearing the people point out the obvious and unchangeable is a disgrace to any persons memory. once you dislodge your head from your ass you'll recognize that

oh, and yeah, no avi training, no snow science degree, no experience in skiing anything without a thousand trees in my way, fortunately for me though decency isn't a class you should have to attend

 

[AdironRider]

So we should just brush it off as an accident, even though there were so many warning signs and mistakes made throughout the day by the party in question.

Ill say it again, if this was a wrong place, wrong time scenario, I could relate with you. But this wasnt that situation, it is not a hindsight is 20/20, every warning sign was loud and damn clear before he even started out the day. It was a situation that was easily avoidable at many different decision points, all of which were ignored. At that point I stop feeling "decency" and start getting pissed at bad decision making, mainly for the absolute worst situation I can think of for the loved ones left behind. But for him? Not so much when it shouldnt have happened in the first place, and not just through a bout of bad luck, but a bout of cockiness and bro brah, "anyone can go big if they stop being pussies" attitude.

By the way thats an actual quote by Jamie Pierre, kinda gives you the mindset he was working with.

 

[kingdom-tele]

so now its NOT even an accident!

I'm astounded. keep going man. a few more days down this path and soon you'll be telling us how JP's family should have to pay the internet risk assessment team for emotional damages for his actions

I'm done. I sincerely hope the moment you realize your not the center of the world does not coincide with the loss of a loved one surrounded by people pointing all reasons they shouldn't have died

 

[MadPatSki]

Geez AdironRider, no wonder people blocked you off on ski forums.

Not sure how old you are, but you sound like an opinionated young kid in where everyone should agree with your view of the World. The guy that is without reproach that never screwed up in your life (skiing or in life in general). Not everything is so black and white.

For the record, I don't say that they didn't screw up bad, but I'm not going to judge and start second guessing what they did. I wasn't there, I don't have the fact and I don't know them personally. From what I heard, Jamie Pierre was a real nice guy that didn't take myself seriously, whatever, I cannot vouch for that, I never meet him.

Oh yeah, I wouldn't want to ski with you either if it can make you happy and for what it matters, I don't have a Level II, I just followed a 2-day level I course in 2008.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm sure I won't. I wouldn't disagree. and yet people were still skiing and not dying. oddly enough you don't see the peanut gallery throwing them under the bus, only the ONE soul that perished - odd and crass IMO

wonder if the hundreds of others who skied that day and ended with high fives and positive experiences learned anything that would prevent them from doing it again on a day that was so, as pointed out, highly dangerous, learning has some base from accumulated experience, it would be interesting to see how many would not do it again based on having a great day skiing with conflicting objective data

. Actually, there was one if not two serious injuries that day (broken femur and dislocated hip due to other avi's). So it was not a great day.....

 

[skiadikt]

maybe a thread that says RIP isn't the proper place for all the passing judgement and second guessing ...

 

[kingdom-tele]

. Actually, there was one if not two serious injuries that day (broken femur and dislocated hip due to other avi's). So it was not a great day.....

guess I missed the thread passing judgement on them

 

[drjeff]

guess I missed the thread passing judgement on them

On that day, between Alta and Snowbird, which since they weren't open were essentially back country, with a report of high avalanche potential from the avalanche forcasters, there were 5 reported slides that were triggered by skiers/riders. 3 of those slides produced injuries that required rescue efforts (the dislocated shoulder, the broken femur, and the fatality). The Patrol of both mountains did a sweep of the areas just after 2 PM to essentially close Alta and Snowbird to foot traffic because of the unsafe conditions. There were a reported "hundreds" of people hiking and skiing/riding at Alta and Snowbird that day. Not everyone had proper avalanche gear with them. Not everyone had avalanche training. Those are the facts. People NEED to learn from what happened last weekend, so a repeat won't happen.

 

[kingdom-tele]

On that day, between Alta and Snowbird, which since they weren't open were essentially back country, with a report of high avalanche potential from the avalanche forcasters, there were 5 reported slides that were triggered by skiers/riders. 3 of those slides produced injuries that required rescue efforts (the dislocated shoulder, the broken femur, and the fatality). The Patrol of both mountains did a sweep of the areas just after 2 PM to essentially close Alta and Snowbird to foot traffic because of the unsafe conditions. There were a reported "hundreds" of people hiking and skiing/riding at Alta and Snowbird that day. Not everyone had proper avalanche gear with them. Not everyone had avalanche training. Those are the facts. People NEED to learn from what happened last weekend, so a repeat won't happen.

I can appreciate the sentiment and couldn't agree more. However, how is this situation any different from any other example of people need to learn so it won't happen. People know smoking is bad for them, why aren't they learning from all the people dying/suffering, etc.

I find it hard to believe that all the people skiing that day had absolutely no idea it could be hazardous - hell, every time I head into the woods it crosses my mind and I don't even have a cert in avy training

no arguement with the notion people need to better informed, and not wanting to hear about a situation like this is an admirable goal, but you really think that its not going to happen again?

I guess, if it never snows again that is a possibilty

 

[drjeff]

I can appreciate the sentiment and couldn't agree more. However, how is this situation any different from any other example of people need to learn so it won't happen. People know smoking is bad for them, why aren't they learning from all the people dying/suffering, etc.

I find it hard to believe that all the people skiing that day had absolutely no idea it could be hazardous - hell, every time I head into the woods it crosses my mind and I don't even have a cert in avy training

no arguement with the notion people need to better informed, and not wanting to hear about a situation like this is an admirable goal, but you really think that its not going to happen again?

I guess, if it never snows again that is a possibilty

The problem is that nowadays there's such a "cool" factor with BC skiing, and it's also becoming more and more readily accessable by more and more people. Many of these folks really don't look at it like its any different than skiing/riding a maintained trail, except for the lack of crowds and more untracked snow. And many of those same people seem to be more worried that they have their video camera so they can capture a youtube moment, than they are about what's the status of the snowpack/do they have their rescue gear/or even how/where to make a safe and proper boot pack up. And that's a problem. Something needs to be done, or else events like this will become more and more prevalent, as they have been becoming the last few seasons.

What is the best way and/or COULD and effective education process that would connect with many a BC "wanna be" skier/rider to convey what can (and does) happen if some basic safety measure aren't followed?? Who knows. I would think that an minimum a starting point might be if all, or atleast a majority of the video producers and ski magazine editors got together and as almost a public service to their readers/viewers made a significant effort via including short clips/ads/stories about PROPER BC safety tips, and then kept repeating them issue after issue, video after video, that would be a starting point, and one that might just get a few people to atleast thinki twice about where they're thinking about skiing/riding and if atleast from an avalanche standpoint the risk level is as low as possible, that would be a plus. Atleast then if something bad happens, the debate would only be about should that person have really atempted that line, vs. what were they thinking given the avalanche risk AND should they have attempted that line.

Like I said many posts ago, there's risk associated with essentially everything we do. But there are times when we need to take a look and see if the risk is "acceptable" (and obviously acceptable will very from person to person) and what isn't. And part of that risk equation should include the risk to others if things go wrong

 

[deadheadskier]

I can appreciate the sentiment and couldn't agree more. However, how is this situation any different from any other example of people need to learn so it won't happen.

It isn't any different. That's why people are making the comments that they are.

Were you pissed off when many people said, "I'm not surprised," when Amy Winehouse died?

As you can imagine, I'm a huge Jerry Garcia fan. Some of the best moments of my life were seeing that man play the guitar. I grieved when he died, but wasn't surprised that it happened.

That's pretty much what people are saying about Jamie Pierre. He was an immensely talented individual who pushed his life to the limit and cheated death many, many times. Eventually that caught up to him. It's sad that he's gone, but not surprising.

 

[JimG.]

It isn't any different. That's why people are making the comments that they are.

Were you pissed off when many people said, "I'm not surprised," when Amy Winehouse died?

As you can imagine, I'm a huge Jerry Garcia fan. Some of the best moments of my life were seeing that man play the guitar. I grieved when he died, but wasn't surprised that it happened.

That's pretty much what people are saying about Jamie Pierre. He was an immensely talented individual who pushed his life to the limit and cheated death many, many times. Eventually that caught up to him. It's sad that he's gone, but not surprising.

+1