Riser Plates

[RossiSkier]

Am very curious to know, how many people have skis that have riser plates on them? What are the thoughts on the plates?

 

[DEVO]

Last season I skied on plates for the first time. I bought Volant Machete Sin's which come with a plate pre-mounted on them, then I bought Salomon s810 ti AXE+ bindings which also come with risers for front and back. When I got them back from getting them mounted I took one look and thought they were ridiculously high. But I asked around to a bunch ski shops (and forums) and everyone told me that it was OK. I ended up really liking the setup. They make the skis very quick edge to edge. I still look at them and wonder if it's too high (sitting on a chair lift, I can put the foot bar your skis rest on between my ski and boot). I have thought about getting a set of shorter screws and taking out the Salomon plates, but overall I like the plates having come from skis with none at all.

 

[JimG.]

I don't use them, but my AT bindings wouldn't accomodate them anyway. But I didn't use them when I was on Alpine bindings either because I prefer an all mountain set-up and spend more time in bumps when there's no powder than on flats.

Just didn't like the plates I demoed when it came to bumps.

 

[tree_skier]

They are great for arcing turns and helps prevent boot outs on super steep stuff but are a negative in the bumps. I have them on both my slalom and GS skis. The GS are my all mountain, powder, bump ski.

 

[DEVO]

I agree that the plates are not great for bumps or powder. I know most people who ski powder alot pefer no plates. If I happen to pick up another, wider, ski (80mm+ waist) then I will probably mount them with little or no plates.

 

[RossiSkier]

Borrowing a great post by Physicsman on Epic forums. . .

Plates like this do three major beneficial things:

1) They help the center of the ski flex more, thereby promoting a nice continuous, unbroken arc when the edge is in contact with a hard surface. More flex = tighter turning radii.

2) They often include a visco-elastic damping layer between the ski and the plate to help damp higher frequency vibrations encountered on hard surfaces. This helps you stay in a carve (ie, at higher speeds, in tighter carves, on rougher surfaces, at barely adequate edge angles, etc.)

3) They lift the foot further from the snow surface. This reduces the torque that the ski is applying to your lower leg trying to flatten the ski. Thus, you don't need to work so hard to get a given edge angle. Again, this helps you make tighter carves.

They also have a few negative consequences:

4) They add weight.

5) They can require more lateral movement of the knee to get the same edge angle (albeit with less force).

6) Make the skis feel overly responsive to changes in edging angle.

 

[riverc0il]

i love risers. i always seem to enjoy skis with elevated binders rather than a flat setup.

 

[JimG.]

i love risers. i always seem to enjoy skis with elevated binders rather than a flat setup.

Steve, you'll have a good sense of this since you have Freerides...I use my AT gear for everyday skiing and those bindings really keep you high up off the ski. It's the bar used to keep the binding's integrity when unlocked that does this.

I've never even come close (and I've tried) to booting out with that setup. If I put risers underneath that setup I'd feel really uncomfortable.

 

[Greg]

Jim - take a look at the gear chapter in your copy of Everything the Instructors Never Told You About Mogul Skiing. Dan claims that risers are counterproductive for mogul skiing...

 

[JimG.]

Jim - take a look at the gear chapter in your copy of Everything the Instructors Never Told You About Mogul Skiing. Dan claims that risers are counterproductive for mogul skiing...

They are...my other set of skis are set up as he describes, bindings mounted flush on the skis.

Don't have a choice with the AT binders though, and it took me a while to get comfy skiing bumps fast with them.

I'm enjoying his book tremendously...it's obvious he's a great skier and it shows that he has a teaching degree. It's a fast read for me, and what it says is gold.

Everyone should read it.

 

[riverc0il]

Steve, you'll have a good sense of this since you have Freerides...I use my AT gear for everyday skiing and those bindings really keep you high up off the ski. It's the bar used to keep the binding's integrity when unlocked that does this.

I've never even come close (and I've tried) to booting out with that setup. If I put risers underneath that setup I'd feel really uncomfortable.

yes, i have a really good sense! i love the height the freeride bindings add under foot. last season i had the freerides mounted to my legend 8000 and enjoyed the setup so much i used it on the lifts. i since bought another 8000 with a p12 binder for lift serviced and noticed a slightly different feel. even with the shims on the p12, it isn't even half the extra height of the freeride and it is noticably less lively. that also has to do with a different binding mount position too, but any ways, it is really noticable and i love the freeride height.

my volkls have the motion system which also really gets you off the ski. the few times i have tried a 'flat' mounted ski, i wasn't impressed.

i would be interested to understand why a riser would not be good for bump skiing. i can understand it would be bad for folks looking to zipper line and make really tight turns. the way i ski bumps though, i can't really see how a riser would negatively effect me much. even if it did, for the small percentage of times i am on a legit bump field, it wouldn't be worth sacrificing the majority of time spent zipping around on groomers to get to the good runs.

 

[JimG.]

i would be interested to understand why a riser would not be good for bump skiing. i can understand it would be bad for folks looking to zipper line and make really tight turns.

The book is about skiing the zipper. That's what "real" bump skiing is; the book gives you everything you need to practice to become a competitive bumper.

I heartily recommend you read it. It's short and to the point. Good stuff for anyone who skis bumps.

 

[riverc0il]

"real" bump skiing :lol:

i actually enjoy zipper line bump skiing least of all, not the way i like to or want to ski bumps. i may give the book a read if i can find a second hand copy pretty cheap, i'm sure i could pick up a tip or two technically even if it's not my style of running bumps. never too good to not learn something new, that's for sure.

 

[JimG.]

"real" bump skiing :lol:

i actually enjoy zipper line bump skiing least of all, not the way i like to or want to ski bumps. i may give the book a read if i can find a second hand copy pretty cheap, i'm sure i could pick up a tip or two technically even if it's not my style of running bumps. never too good to not learn something new, that's for sure.

That's why the real is in quotes. The author admits that not everyone will become a zipper line superstar. But in the world of competitive bumping, these are the techniques you have to use, period. Read it, you'll agree it's a great handbook.

You can borrow my copy when I see you at K in November.

 

[Greg]

I'm enjoying it too. Super easy read. While the techniques discussed are indeed probably geared more for the zipper line bumper, I suspect many of Dan's approaches could be varied somewhat and adapted to suit different bump styles.