SAT Execs Balk at NY Senator's Subpoena

[thetrailboss]

I find it interesting that the College Board, who is interested in rating and assessing students, is refusing to answer questions or even speak about the recent scoring incident. Kind of ironic actually. The article.

Your thoughts?

NO Comments about politics either...

:wink:

 

[JimG.]

Tests should be scored accurately, especially when those tests are used to help determine a person's future. What are you saying to college bound kids when you say you won't disclose the nature of the errors because you don't have to? Sounds like something someone might have said to Ken Lay when he was a kid.

Oh, and the tests should be scored accurately if the company is collecting half a billion dollars annually...that would be called earning your paycheck.

 

[ctenidae]

Is a Senate hearing really goign to solve anything? What's the report going to say, "It was humid out, so we should see if we can fix the scanners to not have that happen again"?

 

[JimG.]

Is a Senate hearing really goign to solve anything?

Maybe it won't solve anything inside the company, but it might cast doubt on the validity of the entire testing process. I wouldn't trust the results of that test if the scoring is affected by humidity or dampness. Admissions officers all over the country should be reading this and taking notice. Maybe write a few letters to the testing company.

Maybe that will get their attention. I'd sit up quick if I stood to lose half a billion annually.

Does it show that I am not a big fan of standardized tests? They prove very little other than that people can cram all that info inside their heads long enough to get a decent score. The big joke in my high school was that the stupidest students, many times those with the most money, scored the highest on these exams because Daddy could spend a fortune getting them prepared.

 

[thetrailboss]

Does it show that I am not a big fan of standardized tests? They prove very little other than that people can cram all that info inside their heads long enough to get a decent score. The big joke in my high school was that the stupidest students, many times those with the most money, scored the highest on these exams because Daddy could spend a fortune getting them prepared.

AMEN!!!!!

My experience exactly. The folks who score a 1600 but can't point to South Dakota on a map....

 

[thetrailboss]

Is a Senate hearing really goign to solve anything? What's the report going to say, "It was humid out, so we should see if we can fix the scanners to not have that happen again"?

I think that the College Board should be held accountable.

 

[ctenidae]

Held accountable, sure, but how? By a Senate hearing forcing them to say "The paper stuck in the scanners. We put new rollers in. Problem solved"?

I'm not a big fan of standaardized tests, either, but they're what we've got. There is a very high correlation between performance on the SAT or ACT and performance in school. Those scores are only one of the factors considered, anyway.

You could throw out the SAT, but what's the alternative?

 

[JimG.]

There is a very high correlation between performance on the SAT or ACT and performance in school.

Well, it has been a long time, and maybe the tests have improved, but this was NOT my experience in high school. There were kids in my class who scored over 1500 on the SAT's yet couldn't think their way out of the building when the test ended.

There's a big difference between being smart and being a good test taker.

 

[ctenidae]

There's a big difference between being smart and being a good test taker.

No doubt. But the SAT covers the largest number of people in the most efficient way. If you had a 4.0 GPA and scored 900 on teh SAT, a college would probably take that into account. If not, do you really want to go there, anyway? Likewise, if you got a 1600 9no 2400) on teh SAT but had a 2.0 GPA, the school would probably look at that, too.

It's not perfect, but it's actually pretty good.

The question still remains, though- how would you hold the College Board accountable? FIne them? Under what authority? Yank their license? Don't think the universities would be real pleased (though the ACT woudl pobably be excited)

 

[ski_resort_observer]

All the college tests, the GRE, SAT, LSAT, MSAT are total scams produced by the College Board taking advantage of the monopololistic environement they so smartly constructed which is driven by students and their parents(mostly the parents) in their need to get the best scores.

Enough studies have been completed over the years which clearly show that the test scores have no relevance as a predictor of success in colleg, grad, medical or law school. Families pay company's like Kaplan $800 per test so their kids score higher and most of the time, they do.

If you thought that maybe this educational blackmail was slowing down, think again. Maine just this past year now require that ALL high schools juniors to take the SAT. More money for the College Board and for companies like Kaplan.

Blame Princeton.....it's their little group of disgruntled former teachers who started this whole mess. :lol:

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm not a big fan of standaardized tests, either, but they're what we've got. There is a very high correlation between performance on the SAT or ACT and performance in school. Those scores are only one of the factors considered, anyway.

That correlation has been challenged and refuted.

 

[JimG.]

All the college tests, the GRE, SAT, LSAT, MSAT are total scams produced by the College Board taking advantage of the monopololistic environement they so smartly constructed which is driven by students and their parents(mostly the parents) in their need to get the best scores.

Enough studies have been completed over the years which clearly show that the test scores have no relevance as a predictor of success in colleg, grad, medical or law school. Families pay company's like Kaplan $800 per test so their kids score higher and most of the time, they do.

If you thought that maybe this educational blackmail was slowing down, think again. Maine just this past year now require that ALL high schools juniors to take the SAT. More money for the College Board and for companies like Kaplan.

Blame Princeton.....it's their little group of disgruntled former teachers who started this whole mess. :lol:

And there you have it...couldn't have said it better myself.

The only way to punish them is to render or imply that their test is irrelevant. Apparently there has been work done to show that the tests do not corelate with performance, but that doesn't seem to matter to the people who so feverishly buy into the SAT hype.

But what good is that hype if they can't score the thing correctly? That's a big problem, don't you agree?

 

[ctenidae]

Oh, I'll agree that the tests aren't great, and not beng able to score them correclty is even worse, but I don't see an alternative that's realistic of feasible. I certainly don't see a NEw York Senator doing much about it, except for his own campaign benefit.

 

[JimG.]

I certainly don't see a NEw York Senator doing much about it, except for his own campaign benefit.

And this proves what? And don't forget to add her to the his.

Business as usual for the esteemed senators from NY.

Please don't tempt me to go political on you.

 

[thetrailboss]

Oh, I'll agree that the tests aren't great, and not beng able to score them correclty is even worse, but I don't see an alternative that's realistic of feasible. I certainly don't see a NEw York Senator doing much about it, except for his own campaign benefit.

It's called oversight. Governmental oversight.

 

[JimG.]

I don't see an alternative that's realistic of feasible.

Get rid of the test; it's trying to level the admissions playing field and ignores the fact that school systems vary from state to state. Use grades and extracurriculars to determine admission. Maybe intensify the interview process and really try to get to know the student. Make admissions officers take into account the differences between school systems. So what if they have to sweat a bit to do it.

Or, overhaul the school system to make sure all schools meet and exceed federal standards and then you won't have to have them learn about the differences.

In short, stop relying on a flawed test and get to know the students you want to admit.

 

[ctenidae]

Hilary's not calling for hearings. It's a State Senator, according to the article.

Government oversight of what? It's not a government issue. If the Board can't score correctly, then the universities will handle it. You can be sure they weren't real happy about having to reopen admissions files.

I think the Senator is "fighting for your family" and is "concerned about education" and "up for re-election."

 

[John84]

I personally believe that the SAT is a necessary evil. Colleges need some way to evaluate an applicant's gpa. Unfortunately, not enough people know about the ACT, which most colleges accept and claim to hold in the same regard as the SAT. I'm going to try practice tests of both to see which I score better on.

 

[ctenidae]

Get rid of the test; it's trying to level the admissions playing field and ignores the fact that school systems vary from state to state. Use grades and extracurriculars to determine admission. Maybe intensify the interview process and really try to get to know the student. Make admissions officers take into account the differences between school systems. So what if they have to sweat a bit to do it.

Not a government issue. A college education is not a right. It may be a necessity, but it's not a right. The government should not be involving itself in this. If the Board was purposuly manipulating the tests and scores to give an unfair advantage to a particular group, I could see some gov't smackdown. It should still be handled by the organizations who utilize the services.

Maine requiring Juniors to take the test is just stupid, by the way.

 

[John84]

ignores the fact that school systems vary from state to state. Use grades...

Exactly. Due to the fact that school systems vary from state to sate, county to county, and school to school, a 4.0 at one school might mean nothing, when someone with a 3.2 at a different school might actually be much harder to attain. Although, colleges do use class rank to determine an approximation of what your gpa actually means.