Seeding and bailouts

[Savemeasammy]

Thoughts on the two? I've really come to enjoy seeded bumps in the 2 seasons I've been back into skiing. I think seeded bumps are especially good on straighter runs that follow the fall line. For natural bumps, I really enjoy them on trails that twist and turn, and who's pitch changes constantly.

I'm of 2 minds when it comes to bailouts. They certainly make any given bump run that much less challenging, and obviously reduce the amount of lines to ski or ride. However, when I ski with my wife, bailouts give us the opportunity to ski the same run. It also gives her the chance to duck into the bumps without making a big commitment.


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[MadMadWorld]

Seeded bumps are great for just pointing and going. I do think though natural bumps are more fun on twisty trails that follow the fall line. Bailouts are okay if you have limited terrain or if the trail is designed for intermediates to be comfortably introduced to bumps. However, if there is no bail out it should be required that it be marked as a double diamond.

 

[jimk]

I'm not that good in the bumps and getting worse fast. For my enjoyment it's all about when they soften up or get covered in new snow offering a bit of forgiveness. I endorse any type of bailout I also like trails that are bumped on one side and groomed on the other providing a choice for this baby boomer depending on current conditions and how my joints feel on any given day. In cold, mid-winter temps I like natural bumps better than seeded. The irregularities of natural bumps offer some natural bailouts and I'll often ski the edge of bump runs next to woods where there are no bumps or they're smaller/farther apart with some nice clumps of loose granular. Big seeded bump runs that are frozen like a brick with no bailouts can be pretty harsh if you're not an excellent mogul masher

 

[skiNEwhere]

There was a thread on here maybe a year ago that talked about how bumps have changed how they form due to different lengths and cuts of skis now vs back in the day with skis over 200 in length.

I was never really into bumps until the last 5 years so I can't really attest to then and now, but I do like to really get into a rhythm with seeded bumps.

The natural bumps bumps provide a challenge in that there is a less consistent line to take, but I mean sometimes the bumps are so badly formed that Mtn operation decides to groom the trail and start over. I remember Sunday River used to do this on white heat if they didn't form right.

Would like to hear more about how natural bumps used to form with straight skis.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm fine with half groomed, half bumped on lower angle trails that are seeded. Steeper trails, I am not. An example would be Skidder at Sugarloaf. That should be wall to wall bumps. By offering a bail out, it encourages more skiers on the trail that don't really have the ability to ski steep bumps and that results in the snow quality of the trail to degrade faster as you end up with a bunch of people side slipping down the bumps and scraping the snow down to hard pack.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Ya I like to bailout of the groomed into the bumps now and then....oh wait.

 

[Savemeasammy]

Would like to hear more about how natural bumps used to form with straight skis.

IMO, then and now, better bumps formed at resorts that attracted better skiers. Back in the late 80's my home mountain was whaleback. The bumps that formed there were very erratic. They were not consistent in size, spacing, or rhythm. For those reasons, skiing bumps there was really good to develop solid skills.

I went to Killington a lot because I always found their bumps to be quite good. Great rhythm and spacing. Even back then, zipper lines were plentiful. Wildfire and Bear Claw were great rippers, and Outer Limits had huge man eating bumps under the chair.




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[Savemeasammy]

I'm fine with half groomed, half bumped on lower angle trails that are seeded. Steeper trails, I am not. An example would be Skidder at Sugarloaf. That should be wall to wall bumps. By offering a bail out, it encourages more skiers on the trail that don't really have the ability to ski steep bumps and that results in the snow quality of the trail to degrade faster as you end up with a bunch of people side slipping down the bumps and scraping the snow down to hard pack.

I sort of see the logic, but I think I am more inclined to disagree. Take Hurricane as an example. Even though it is directly under the lift so that people can see how difficult it is, they ski it anyway. Those in over their heads side slip and scrape the hell out of it. If it were partially groomed (sorry all - this is what meant by a bail-out), people could get back to the safety of the groomed. And, for the record, I wouldn't endorse this. I would be in favor of seeding skiers left, though.


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[jimk]

There was a thread on here maybe a year ago that talked about how bumps have changed how they form due to different lengths and cuts of skis now vs back in the day with skis over 200 in length.

I was never really into bumps until the last 5 years so I can't really attest to then and now, but I do like to really get into a rhythm with seeded bumps.

The natural bumps bumps provide a challenge in that there is a less consistent line to take, but I mean sometimes the bumps are so badly formed that Mtn operation decides to groom the trail and start over. I remember Sunday River used to do this on white heat if they didn't form right.

Would like to hear more about how natural bumps used to form with straight skis.

In my rosy recollections from the '60s and '70s the bumps were rounder and spaced further apart than in the short ski era starting around 1985ish. Although it's still all about traffic even in 2014. Heavily trafficked bump runs, either seeded or natural (assuming decent natural base) can get some funky patterns and harsh angles after a while, esp in Eastern freeze/thaw cycles. Likewise, a good, stout bump runs with sufficient coverage and light/moderate traffic seem to ski much like ever - and still remind me how much I suck

I'm fine with half groomed, half bumped on lower angle trails that are seeded. Steeper trails, I am not. An example would be Skidder at Sugarloaf. That should be wall to wall bumps. By offering a bail out, it encourages more skiers on the trail that don't really have the ability to ski steep bumps and that results in the snow quality of the trail to degrade faster as you end up with a bunch of people side slipping down the bumps and scraping the snow down to hard pack.

When I skied Sunday River two years ago White Heat (big steep run) was half bumps/half groom. I was glad for the groom on a frozen granular day I do share some concern about big, steep groomed faces. Back in the '90s I watched a buddy slide like a turtle on his back about 100 yrds down White Nitro at Sugarloaf when it was real slick and firm one day.

 

[Puck it]

Bailouts! Bailouts! We don't need any stinkin' bailouts!

 

[snoseek]

Seeded bumps are great for local feeder areas to occupy time and give variety. Other than that I don't really like them.

I see what DHS is saying. I enjoy skiing big gnarly bumps at a place like MRG or Taos, places with almost no bailouts and a high level of competence. I guess that's why those bumps are so much more enjoyable. I actually just now put that together in my head, it makes sense. Good skiers make good bumps.

 

[jimk]

I'm fine with half groomed, half bumped on lower angle trails that are seeded. Steeper trails, I am not. An example would be Skidder at Sugarloaf. That should be wall to wall bumps. By offering a bail out, it encourages more skiers on the trail that don't really have the ability to ski steep bumps and that results in the snow quality of the trail to degrade faster as you end up with a bunch of people side slipping down the bumps and scraping the snow down to hard pack.

Question: is that Skidder beside lift on right side of this photo? Or is it further right? Thanks


This is upper White Nitro in kinder gentler 2014 conditions

 

[deadheadskier]

Nope, that's Spillway. Skidder is the trail skiers left of the Superquad.

 

[MadMadWorld]

Bailouts! Bailouts! We don't need any stinkin' bailouts!

Who invited Occupy Wall Street?

 

[dlague]

I'm fine with half groomed, half bumped on lower angle trails that are seeded. Steeper trails, I am not. An example would be Skidder at Sugarloaf. That should be wall to wall bumps. By offering a bail out, it encourages more skiers on the trail that don't really have the ability to ski steep bumps and that results in the snow quality of the trail to degrade faster as you end up with a bunch of people side slipping down the bumps and scraping the snow down to hard pack.

After I tore my ACL I stopped skiing bumps, but last year started back up and I find that bailouts are good for introducing my wife to steeper trails and she can try a few bumps now and then. Even I find myself getting out of the bumps and taking the bailout if they are too scraped off or just not feeling it!. As far as seeded bumps - certainly easier to find a rhythm compared to natural bumps but then again the natural bumps provide a variety that makes things a little more interesting. IMO

 

[SkiFanE]

I'm fine with half groomed, half bumped on lower angle trails that are seeded. Steeper trails, I am not. An example would be Skidder at Sugarloaf. That should be wall to wall bumps. By offering a bail out, it encourages more skiers on the trail that don't really have the ability to ski steep bumps and that results in the snow quality of the trail to degrade faster as you end up with a bunch of people side slipping down the bumps and scraping the snow down to hard pack.

This. Agony on SR gets a bad rhythm. I think it's all the scraping from unqualified skiers/boarders.

Never done a seeded run. Doesn't look fun. And I spend all day in the bumps. Lol. I almost always find good bumps at any ski area. Hug the trees. Sometimes groomers miss a couple feet lol.

Only been to MRG once, but it's my fave . Could ski that place all day long, nature always does better than man at grooming. I need to get back this winter.

 

[jimk]

Only been to MRG once, but it's my fave . Could ski that place all day long, nature always does better than man at grooming. I need to get back this winter.

I agree: