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Ski Monster for boot fitting?

deadheadskier

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Okay,

Just spent about 20 minutes on the phone with Paul Richelson going over his process. This is how it works

$75 for initial evaluation. They take full measurements of your lower leg and foot, evaluate arches, how much you pronate or supinate and how your feet align with your knees and hips. They factor in your skiing ability and style to come up with a list of about 6-7 boot models that are the right starting point for your anatomy. They have a database of most every model of boot from the major manufacturers going back ten years. They don't just take the information from the factory as not all 98 or 102 last measurements are the same and reported accurately from the manufacturers. They actually get in each model of boot and measure the boots themselves to have accurate volume numbers for all areas in the boot - toe box, arch area, heal and calf.

Now depending on how funky your feet are, you may be able to take the list and go buy a boot and that's all you need to do. If they come with custom modable liners or shells, their charge is $20 to heat and mold. If you have other issues such as collapsed arches and further work needs to be done fixing those problems, that comes on an ala carte basis.

You can go an inexpensive route with off the shelf orthotics. They have about a dozen different brands. These range in price from $30-$50. They can build out these foot beds to fit you better than off the shelf for additional money that brings the price to about $90. These off the shelf products only last about 50-75 days of skiing before breaking down. The other route is their custom orthotics. These run $250 and last 750 days on average.

Additional work done such as blowing out the shells or grinding areas can cost $20-$50 depending on how much work is required.

In the long run I see the benefit that if you have got the right boot shell and custom orthotics, those two items will last 750 days on snow. So without any further work done, you would be looking at $345 on top of the cost of the boot. If your liners get packed out after 150-200 days or so, you then would only need to replace the liners instead of getting new boots and starting the process all over.

It's not cheap, but I think at minimum I'll be making an appointment to get the $75 evaluation. That will at least tell me if the boot I currently have is worth trying to salvage. If not, I'll have a list of boots that are better for my anatomy and perhaps I'll be able to score one of these models online at a discount.
 

Jully

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High level performance boots, arguably THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT you own, aren't always cheap. When you consider that the average person might ski 300+ days on their boots, if you're going to a GOOD fitter, and their costs are say $100 more than the random online or big volume, big box store prices, is the extra say $0.33 a ski day worth the extra performance from day 1 worth it to you??

Remember, for most skiers, their boot lifespan will not be just 1 season, but 3-5+ seasons. Over that period of time, the added upfront costs of a GOOD fitter, really does become quiet nominal for tangible benefits

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Oh I certainly agree. It just sounded to me like the sticker price might be a lot more than $100.

DHS, those are definitely good experiences to share although frustrating to hear about the experience in the shop. Your ankle bone pain sounds very similar to the pain I experienced in a previous pair of boots I had too 2 pairs ago!
 

wa-loaf

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I'm on year three trying to get my money's worth, but these boots won't make my typical 150-200 days of use. They may not make it beyond 100. On snow from day one these boots have hurt my interior ankle bones literally every day I've skied them. I brought them back to the store after the first month using them and Tahoe dude had moved on. The owner of the shop said he really could only punch out the boots a little where my problem is due to the hinge at the ankle and it was likely a problem with my foots anatomy. He thought I was in the wrong boot and he actually didn't want to do anything for me at all. Basically he said he knew how, but his shop really doesn't do a lot of customizing. I expressed my displeasure that he wasn't going to at least try to work with me and back up his service. He eventually agreed to punch them out some. It helped a bit, but they still hurt on my interior ankle bones every day I ski. Not just an ache, but by the end of the day it's like someone has tapped my ankle bones with a hammer. It's not just while I wear them either. I got off snow 9 hours ago from skiing hard today and they still ache a bit right now and I'll feel it in the morning.

In the mean time try putting a shim under the inside of your footbed, should tilt your foot outwards a little and take some pressure off of the ankle.
 

TheArchitect

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It's not cheap, but I think at minimum I'll be making an appointment to get the $75 evaluation. That will at least tell me if the boot I currently have is worth trying to salvage. If not, I'll have a list of boots that are better for my anatomy and perhaps I'll be able to score one of these models online at a discount.

No, it's not cheap but I'd pay it if I needed new boots right now. After reading about this Paul is at the top of my short list when I get my next boots, even if it's a long drive to get there for me.

I did go to Boston Ski and Tennis Wednesday with the intent of buying a new liner or new boots. We worked though the issues and decided to re-heat my Dreamliners and add some strategically placed foam to try and fix the heel hold and hot spot issues I've been having. I skied them yesterday at Wachusett and the problems were solved. Time will tell how it holds up but I'm pretty happy with the job Dan at BST did.
 

bigbog

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As a starter, look for a fitter who is a certified pedorthist - they have received training in modification technics to alter boots to fit the foot.

An additional thing to look for is if a fitter is a graduate of Masterfit U, which is a specialized boot fitting course

While by no means are these the only things to look for and/or guarantee that a fitter is "good" it is a sign that they've taken extra steps to advance their skills in boot fitting and quality for their clients.............

+1
 

Jully

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That sounds like a very reasonable process from Paul. I will definitely look into him too when I need new boots in two seasons or so (Assuming I'm still in the area).
 

deadheadskier

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In the mean time try putting a shim under the inside of your footbed, should tilt your foot outwards a little and take some pressure off of the ankle.
I'm only familiar with shims with carpentry. Is there a specific aftermarket ski boot shim you can buy?

I've got an appointment request in with Richelsons. I may see if they have something like that I could have them install.

I basically want to get an idea of what I truly need to invest to have a proper fitting boot. I'm hoping that I can work with my current boot and add custom orthotics and do a bit of shell work.

I have completely flat feet, so custom orthotics is likely something I truly need. I saw a podiatrist when I injured my heel a few years ago and he was truly surprised that with my foot anatomy I don't have constant knee, hip and back pain. I've since been using off the shelf orthotics in all my shoes that I buy from his office. Can't say I notice much of a difference, but the doc put a real scare in me that I needed to do something or face real problems down the road. At $25 a pair it has seemed like a short investment to make to hopefully avoid those problems.

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Hawkshot99

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I'm only familiar with shims with carpentry. Is there a specific aftermarket ski boot shim you can buy?

I've got an appointment request in with Richelsons. I may see if they have something like that I could have them install.

I basically want to get an idea of what I truly need to invest to have a proper fitting boot. I'm hoping that I can work with my current boot and add custom orthotics and do a bit of shell work.

I have completely flat feet, so custom orthotics is likely something I truly need. I saw a podiatrist when I injured my heel a few years ago and he was truly surprised that with my foot anatomy I don't have constant knee, hip and back pain. I've since been using off the shelf orthotics in all my shoes that I buy from his office. Can't say I notice much of a difference, but the doc put a real scare in me that I needed to do something or face real problems down the road. At $25 a pair it has seemed like a short investment to make to hopefully avoid those problems.

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I am only familiar with the shims used in ski boots, but I'm sure they exist for other forms of shoes...they are made from a very dense rubber so it does not compress under weight. They come in a few different sizes depending on how much angling is needed.

Both of my feet lean in heavily and kill my arches if on a flat surface. I have my footbeds severely canted outwards to compensate. I glued the wedges down and then shaped them with a dremel.

I will try to take a picture tomorrow of the wedges.

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Hawkshot99

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I am only familiar with the shims used in ski boots, but I'm sure they exist for other forms of shoes...they are made from a very dense rubber so it does not compress under weight. They come in a few different sizes depending on how much angling is needed.

Both of my feet lean in heavily and kill my arches if on a flat surface. I have my footbeds severely canted outwards to compensate. I glued the wedges down and then shaped them with a dremel.

I will try to take a picture tomorrow of the wedges.

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Here is a link to Sun Valley Ski Tools varus wedges. They are a large ski shop supply company.

http://www.slidewright.com/svst-varus-heel-wedges-pr.php

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sankaty

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Not just an ache, but by the end of the day it's like someone has tapped my ankle bones with a hammer. It's not just while I wear them either. I got off snow 9 hours ago from skiing hard today and they still ache a bit right now and I'll feel it in the morning.

I had a similar problem many years ago, but with the outer ankle bone. I spent months unsuccessfully trying to fix it with different boot fitters punching and grinding the shell. Then I visited Jeff Rich at the US Orthotic Center in NYC, and he quickly determined that it was the liner and not the shell that was causing the problem. While I tried to explain to him that the soft liner could not possibly be the source of the feeling of a spike being driven into my ankle, he cut away literally all of the foam over the exterior ankle bone leaving only the fabric (and duct taped the hole from the outside). He then added an L shaped piece of foam behind and below the bone to take up any extra volume and float the ankle bone in the space he created by cutting out the foam. The problem was instantly and permanently solved.

I have no idea if this would work for you, but it did teach me that the liner can cause as many problems as the shell, and even though it seems soft, it doesn't always feel like it.

With my current set of boots, which I got a long time ago, I switched to Intuition wrap liners, and I'm totally converted. I have a crazy high instep. If I step in a stock boot that fits the other dimensions of my foot, the instep get crushed, instantly putting my forefoot to sleep, even with the boot completely unbuckled. The Intuition liner totally solved this. I got them molded with a couple of toe caps, a pad over the instep, and some pads over the ankle bones. They were super comfortable and supportive from day one.

I'm now on day 175 or so. I'm thinking I should start looking for new boots before it becomes an emergency. Any recommendations for boot fitters in the Okemo/Killington area? I've heard some good things about the Boot Pro in Ludlow.
 

Jcb890

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Where can I go to find a good experienced boot fitter for snowboard boots? In/around MA would be best... if possible.

My current boots have maybe 75 days on them and have been heat molded to my feet (which made a big difference), but I often wind up with foot pain throughout the day. Having size 13 shoes/boots, there often aren't a whole lot of options either. Perhaps I should be looking into custom foot beds to help, I am not sure, but the foot pain isn't always on the bottom or arches of my feet, so I don't know if that would solve my issues.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
 

TheArchitect

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Where can I go to find a good experienced boot fitter for snowboard boots? In/around MA would be best... if possible.

My current boots have maybe 75 days on them and have been heat molded to my feet (which made a big difference), but I often wind up with foot pain throughout the day. Having size 13 shoes/boots, there often aren't a whole lot of options either. Perhaps I should be looking into custom foot beds to help, I am not sure, but the foot pain isn't always on the bottom or arches of my feet, so I don't know if that would solve my issues.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

In my experience you should avoid Eastern Boarder. I brought a pair of boots in to have the liners molded and they did a terrible job. I know this because I did some research after the fact and it was clear that the guy either didn't know what he was doing or didn't care as I was obviously not a "snowboarder"

I was up at Wachusett 2 days later and the boots felt terrible so I took them into their shop. That guy clearly knew what he was doing and actually cared and now my boots feel fantastic.

I thought for sure I'd get better service from a dedicated snowboard shop but I was very wrong.
 

Jcb890

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In my experience you should avoid Eastern Boarder. I brought a pair of boots in to have the liners molded and they did a terrible job. I know this because I did some research after the fact and it was clear that the guy either didn't know what he was doing or didn't care as I was obviously not a "snowboarder"

I was up at Wachusett 2 days later and the boots felt terrible so I took them into their shop. That guy clearly knew what he was doing and actually cared and now my boots feel fantastic.

I thought for sure I'd get better service from a dedicated snowboard shop but I was very wrong.
Can you elaborate why they didn't know what they were doing and what Wachusett did differently in molding your boots? Not doubting at all, just curious what the differences were.
 

xwhaler

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Northernskiworks.com they have a shop at both killington and okemo

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My uncle who skis all over the world but has a place in Proctorsville and skis Okemo 80+ days/yr does all his business with Northern Ski Works and has for many many yrs.
I trust his recommendation----they have a great reputation.
 

TheArchitect

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Can you elaborate why they didn't know what they were doing and what Wachusett did differently in molding your boots? Not doubting at all, just curious what the differences were.

Sure. First, I tried to explain what it was my foot was feeling inside the boot and he clearly wasn't listening. Zero questions about what was happening, just "Let's heat them up and that will fix it". They didn't use an oven to heat them up, either. Second, he put them on and told me to walk around for 10 minutes and they'll be fixed.

Wachusett asked me a bunch of questions about what was happening (toes hurting and heel hold issues). They put in toe caps, heated the liners in an oven and then put them on. He told me I had to stand still, slightly flexing my knees with a 2x4 under my toes so I was standing at an angle and the heel would be forced further back.

After the 12 or so minutes of real pain in my toes he had me take them off and let my feet recover. Then we put them back on and he checked the fit.

So, it's just my experience but I would never recommend them.
 

deadheadskier

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I had a similar problem many years ago, but with the outer ankle bone. I spent months unsuccessfully trying to fix it with different boot fitters punching and grinding the shell. Then I visited Jeff Rich at the US Orthotic Center in NYC, and he quickly determined that it was the liner and not the shell that was causing the problem. While I tried to explain to him that the soft liner could not possibly be the source of the feeling of a spike being driven into my ankle, he cut away literally all of the foam over the exterior ankle bone leaving only the fabric (and duct taped the hole from the outside). He then added an L shaped piece of foam behind and below the bone to take up any extra volume and float the ankle bone in the space he created by cutting out the foam. The problem was instantly and permanently solved.

I have no idea if this would work for you, but it did teach me that the liner can cause as many problems as the shell, and even though it seems soft, it doesn't always feel like it.

With my current set of boots, which I got a long time ago, I switched to Intuition wrap liners, and I'm totally converted. I have a crazy high instep. If I step in a stock boot that fits the other dimensions of my foot, the instep get crushed, instantly putting my forefoot to sleep, even with the boot completely unbuckled. The Intuition liner totally solved this. I got them molded with a couple of toe caps, a pad over the instep, and some pads over the ankle bones. They were super comfortable and supportive from day one.

I'm now on day 175 or so. I'm thinking I should start looking for new boots before it becomes an emergency. Any recommendations for boot fitters in the Okemo/Killington area? I've heard some good things about the Boot Pro in Ludlow.
The Boot Pro is good. The owner worked at Northern Ski Works in Ludlow for many years before opening his own sho. Shon fitted my entire family for many years growing up. I would absolutely go to him if the store was convenient and I skied in that area frequently.

We will see if Richelsons does something similar for me. I have an appointment this Thursday.

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