Ski Sundown Bump or Bust Mogul Competition - 1/30/2010

[Greg]

Time to make some popcorn...

 

[powhunter]

women have equal rights??

 

[MR. evil]

FWIW. If there women’s field was much bigger and competitive then the men’s field I would be arguing the complete opposite, that the women should get better prizes than the guys.

 

[Grassi21]

:-o

 

[severine]

Wouldn’t it also be unequal treatment for one group to receive the same compensation and or prize for doing less?

I wasn't arguing for *my* sake because I am not a competitor. I have no delusions of grandeur, trust me. However, the same could be said for allowing some of you to compete in the category with that greater prize. Perhaps, since you want compensation to be comparable to competitiveness and ability, then there should be an elite category of those who have the skillz...and the rest of you get squat.

 

[Grassi21]

if we want to talk equality, then there should be the same value prize for every bracket... no offense to the little rippers but they don't deserve a set of skis, boots, or whatever the BIG prize is...

 

[MR. evil]

if we want to talk equality, then there should be the same value prize for every bracket... no offense to the little rippers but they don't deserve a set of skis, boots, or whatever the BIG prize is...

agreed.

 

[MR. evil]

I wasn't arguing for *my* sake because I am not a competitor. I have no delusions of grandeur, trust me. However, the same could be said for allowing some of you to compete in the category with that greater prize. Perhaps, since you want compensation to be comparable to competitiveness and ability, then there should be an elite category of those who have the skillz...and the rest of you get squat.

I never said anything about ability, just depth and competitiveness. If there were 20 average ADULT women’s skiers with no rippers what so ever I would argue that the prizes be equal or close. But last year the women’s field consisted of 3 adults and 3 kids, does the winner of that field honestly deserve the same prizes as the winner of the men’s field with 30 competitors? You can't have adults competing in a bracket against kids and expect equal prizes.

If you want better prizes for the women, get the field to grow. Do your part by stepping up and competing this year.

 

[severine]

I never said anything about ability, just depth and competitiveness. If there were 20 average ADULT women’s skiers with no rippers what so ever I would argue that the prizes be equal or close. But last year the women’s field consisted of 3 adults and 3 kids, does the winner of that field honestly deserve the same prizes as the winner of the men’s field with 30 competitors? You can't have adults competing in a bracket against kids and expect equal prizes.

If you want better prizes for the women, get the field to grow. Do your part by stepping up and competing this year.

It's the chicken or the egg. My argument is that the field won't grow with women knowing they're second class. We can agree to disagree here, but that's my point.

I would gladly step up and compete, and I really wanted to. However, I'm not so sure my knee would agree to it at this time and my insurance sucks. If anyone is willing to foot the bill for an MRI if I kill my knee in the comp, I'll do it; it was over $300 last time, even with insurance.

 

[MR. evil]

It's the chicken or the egg. My argument is that the field won't grow with women knowing they're second class. We can agree to disagree here, but that's my point.

For the sale of this discussion, let’s leave the spring comp on Gunny out of this discussion because that is a whole different animal than the winter comp.

The first year of the winter comp most of the men didn’t even know if there would be prizes. We all showed up to ski and have fun. W had a really good turn out regardless. Last season even more guys showed up, maybe a few for the prizes, but mostly because they heard how much fun we had the season before….and lets not forget bragging rights. Last season it turned out that the prizes were much better than the winter before, again none of us knew that going in. This was probably because SD knew there would be a large showing from the past event and could thus get more swag from sponsors. Only the guys at SD know for sure. What I am trying to get at here is that the men’s division of the winter comp has grown because it’s a fun event and we all just like to ski bumps and havng out. As a result the prizes have grown and not the other way around. Maybe if more women simply showed up to have a good time and ski with fellow bumpers the same thing would happen, that division would grow as well as the prizes.

 

[severine]

For the sale of this discussion, let’s leave the spring comp on Gunny out of this discussion because that is a whole different animal than the winter comp.

The first year of the winter comp most of the men didn’t even know if there would be prizes. We all showed up to ski and have fun. W had a really good turn out regardless. Last season even more guys showed up, maybe a few for the prizes, but mostly because they heard how much fun we had the season before….and lets not forget bragging rights. Last season it turned out that the prizes were much better than the winter before, again none of us knew that going in. This was probably because SD knew there would be a large showing from the past event and could thus get more swag from sponsors. Only the guys at SD know for sure. What I am trying to get at here is that the men’s division of the winter comp has grown because it’s a fun event and we all just like to ski bumps and havng out. As a result the prizes have grown and not the other way around. Maybe if more women simply showed up to have a good time and ski with fellow bumpers the same thing would happen, that division would grow as well as the prizes.

Perhaps you are right. I'm hoping MogulQueen will chime in here since she's more of a bump skier and would probably have a better perspective.

I can see the camaraderie you guys have and that's great; there's obviously that additional element to the comp for you guys. There ARE women who ski the bumps who are not AZers, I'm sure; where they are weighing in on these comps, I don't know. Maybe they're not competing because they lack the testosterone to feel it necessary to thump their chests, I don't know. MAYBE there shouldn't be any prizes, just bragging rights. That would make it have more of the feel you suggest and there'd be less discontent over who gets what.

 

[Greg]

Maybe they're not competing because they lack the testosterone to feel it necessary to thump their chests, I don't know. MAYBE there shouldn't be any prizes, just bragging rights. That would make it have more of the feel you suggest and there'd be less discontent over who gets what.

Personally, I don't compete in the comps be prove anything to anyone but myself. I've been getting a bit better each time and that's good enough for me. My main motivation for competing at all is to help support the mogul philosophy at the mountain, since at the end of the day, that's the most important thing to me. I'll gladly pay my $5 or $20 or whatever the admission fee is each time for that reason alone. I already know going into it I won't be all that competitive much less win anything and that's fine. So painting with the broad testosterone laden brush isn't fair either. I know there's a winkie there, but still.

Bottom line is the women prizes should be improved. Exactly comparable with the mens? I guess that could remain up for debate, but each division should have some attractive prizes for the winners. In order to accomplish that, the women and kids division should have better prizes. I'm not sure why that's being argued, but whatever...

 

[o3jeff]

If the pot is cash its simple. If the total pot is $100 and 10 guys and 90 women show up, 10% of the pot is for the men and 90% for the women.

 

[2knees]

while i understand what mogulqueen is saying, i doubt the prizes offered would change the size of the field. so its not really a chicken or the egg thing in my opinion. sev, you need to stop talking about your knee and just move on. take if from someone who has been there. you get hung up mentally on it and it really gets into your head. same thing happened to me for a while. just ignore it unless it has serious pain.

 

[severine]

sev, you need to stop talking about your knee and just move on. take if from someone who has been there. you get hung up mentally on it and it really gets into your head. same thing happened to me for a while. just ignore it unless it has serious pain.

The problem is that I have been having sharp, serious pains for the last couple of weeks, hence my recent hesitation. I did some additional damage to it last spring and now it periodically flares up and when it does, I can barely walk let alone do anything else. Some of it is overuse I think from my running training but part of it is a tracking problem. I know when to ignore it and when not to, don't worry about that. But sometimes, it's just not a good idea to ignore. I know what you're saying and I do appreciate it.

Recent swelling is going down again and it's starting to feel normal, which is good because I have 3 weeks left of school vacation to log some hill time.

Back on the topic, I expect to see a great AZ turnout! Hoping to get childcare lined up so I can at least be there.

 

[MogulQueen]

Wow....I'm sorry I have not chimed in until now, I have been slamming Temptor for the past two days so I have not had time to check in. Temptor was awesome today, btw. On the topic of women's prizes. In my original comment, I was NOT suggesting that it should be equal. I will say that last year I won 1st and got a $25 gift card. Good for me, I was psyched just to have bragging rights. The men walked home with a $400 gift card. Whatever. I really wasn't that bent about it. The only thing that it did create was this: The girl who I would have liked to compete against raced in the men's division because she thought she could win it. She had no chance. In fact most men were determined not to let her get too far. Not only that, it was a slap in my face because it looked like I wasn't worth the competition. Maybe she did not intend to stir all that up, but it did and it was mainly because the "prizes" between the men and women were VASTLY different. We can't draw more women if it doesn't seem worth it in the first place to take the chance or that they have to compete with men, which genetically we don't have a chance. All I am saying is this...Can we just sweeten the pot a little more for the women. Thanks.

 

[Greg]

The girl who I would have liked to compete against raced in the men's division because she thought she could win it. She had no chance. In fact most men were determined not to let her get too far.

Except for me....

Just thought I'd chime in here just so Pat didn''t get the chance... :lol:

Anyway, that girl didn't even qualify in March (I did! ) so maybe she'll do the women division this year. I think you stated a fair case, MQ, and I'm sure Jarrod and Chris have taken note.

 

[2knees]

The problem is that I have been having sharp, serious pains for the last couple of weeks, hence my recent hesitation. I did some additional damage to it last spring and now it periodically flares up and when it does, I can barely walk let alone do anything else. Some of it is overuse I think from my running training but part of it is a tracking problem. I know when to ignore it and when not to, don't worry about that. But sometimes, it's just not a good idea to ignore. I know what you're saying and I do appreciate it.

Recent swelling is going down again and it's starting to feel normal, which is good because I have 3 weeks left of school vacation to log some hill time.

Back on the topic, I expect to see a great AZ turnout! Hoping to get childcare lined up so I can at least be there.

well, thats definitely something you want to have checked out. I had gotten to a point where I couldnt even play golf without constantly thinking about what was going to happen. Just dont let yourself get to that point. It becomes almost all consuming. knees suck.

 

[jarrodski]

listen up... prizes are detetermined by the amount of free stuff i can snag. it has much less to do with a lot of what you're discussing, despite its relevancy.

if up to me, every division would get cash hardgoods and softgoods, everyone entered would get a t, a hat and a ticket voucher to sugarbush. fact is, the companies are crying poverty.

with taht in mind, you'll be happy with the january comp.

i got home work to do on this event, i'll post latetr

 

[2knees]

I totally get what mogulqueen is saying. for me, the prizes are completely irrelevant. I have a better chance of winning powerball then snagging a prize in either comp.