Skier speed trap hell

[Smellytele]

Jully, just so you know if I was to think about taking public transportation to Foxboro from my house it would be Commute rail from Beverly to Boston, orange line to Red line to South Station and then commuter rail from South station to Foxboro. Round trip cost would be $37. That pays for gas and parking if I take my car.

$37 round trip per person so if you went with 3 other people it would be $148!

 

[BenedictGomez]

On the front page of the local newspaper today there was article about self-driving cars and how a lot of people simply aren't interested in them and even don't want them. In some recent poll, 75% of people said they would still rather keep driving themselves even if automated driving was available to them. Over 70% said they would "miss" driving if we moved towards self-driving cars.

Too early, but the consumer will change.

Barnes & Noble came out with e-readers circa 1998, and it was basically a complete flop. Pffttt.... who wants that? Nobody wants to read on a SCREEN they said! Same thing will happen with driverless cars. Once they get on the road and folks get used to the idea and grow familiar with them, people will want them.

People always argue that the car represents freedom in the U.S. and that not having a car prevents freedom.

Correct; and the reason they argue that is because in 99% of the geography, that's a true statement.

 

[BenedictGomez]

$37 round trip per person so if you went with 3 other people it would be $148!

Same here.

It's now up to an insane $32.50 per person to get into Manhattan from where I am in Jersey! LOL.

Something like a 100% cost increase in less than 10 years = Yeah, no thanks.

 

[2Planker]

30 mins ??? Try waiting 3 hours for the next bus.

In Boston you wait 30 mins for a T bus IF it is running on time. Not uncommon to wait 45+ mins....

Last time I was in NYC I missed the bus back home by literally about 60 seconds (saw it pulling away just as I got to the gate). So annoying having to stand around and wait another 30 minutes for the next bus. I don't like having to plan around set schedules because there's just no flexibility.

 

[cdskier]

30 mins ??? Try waiting 3 hours for the next bus.

In Boston you wait 30 mins for a T bus IF it is running on time. Not uncommon to wait 45+ mins....

Yea, in NYC/NJ it depends on the route and time of day. The bus route I would use is one of the more popular ones that has very frequent departures most days and at most times during the day. There are other routes to other places in NJ from NYC that are far less frequent.

 

[Jcb890]

People always argue that the car represents freedom in the U.S. and that not having a car prevents freedom.

I disagree. While getting a car might make you feel free when you're back in High School, commuting everyday by car is the least-free thing you can imagine. Traffic everywhere. At least in the Boston Metro area where I live.

And people always argue against trains because "with cars I can leave when I want". But what they don't realize is that they are not really leaving when they want in a car. Say you have to be at work by 9 in Boston and you live in southern NH, that 5 minutes that you have of flexibility in leaving could severely increase your commute time. Leaving 5-10 mins later than "usual" makes all the difference when its rush-hour traffic. I know people who wake up at 4:45 just to beat the morning commute (and still run into traffic)--thats also not leaving "when you want".

Rather than pushing the idea of a car as "freedom" we as a country should make our train systems more robust and push the idea of a trains as "reliability". Yes, a train has a fixed schedule, but good train service surpasses anything cars can offer (see Europe). And you can sleep/text during the commute!!

After a long day of skiing the last thing I want to do is drive the 3 hours home. If there was a train that took me home in 3 hours or less I would take it.

IMO, people driving from Southern NH to Boston daily for work are insane.

 

[tumbler]

As I'm driving my car on interstates in New England and the Northeast I do wonder about a new high speed train system but building it would be way too expensive and too many NIMBYS. One thing that struck me was why not use the massive footprint that the interstates take up and put rails either on the shoulder and/or in the median? There would be some issues of large percent grades but would think that could be solved. The stations could correspond with exits so cars could easily get there to pick you up. Doesn't have to be every exit.

I do love my car and do not know what I would do without it. But if I could take a relaible train to Waterbury and be picked up to go to SB and back on Sunday, I would seriously consider it. I would love to apres on Sunday!!!

 

[deadheadskier]

IMO, people who live in Mass are insane. Lol

I make the commute down to the city a couple of days a week. It blows, but I can't deal with Boston metro traffic even on the weekends. Happy to keep my sanity a bit North of the border

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[tumbler]

IMO, people driving from Southern NH to Boston daily for work are insane.

I cannot believe that Mass does not have tolls on 93 and 3 at the border and only on the Pike. Would certainly help take care of the roads. There are tolls in NH so poeple shouldn't complain.

 

[SkiFanE]

I agree. There would never be enough weekday passengers. With one train running Friday evening, Saturday and Sunday AM and PM no way can they afford building the track.

This statement is the crux of the problem. The expectation a rail line has to be profitable. We, as a society, have to come together and put $ into the public good. Not worry about profitability. We put tax dollars into the millions of miles of roads, and don't expect profitability. Maybe instead of adding a 4th lane to a highway, adding public transportation may make the 4th lane unnecessary. I am no way advocating or debating for this - but after seeing traffic grow so much around me, with new condo complexes being added to places without any public transportation - there really is no longer a way to build our way out with new roads and traffic signals. At some point we all have to agree to fix this. May not be for 50 years until we can no longer move our car around - but it also seems to be unsustainable growth.

 

[speden]

Too early, but the consumer will change.

The car companies might also make self driving cars to suit different types of car buyers. I'd probably dislike a self driving car if it drove around like a little old lady, but if I could customize it to drive more aggressively and use my favorite short cuts on the way to work, then it would be more appealing. Kind of like the way you can set cruise control to go faster than the speed limit if you want to. With the advances in artificial intelligence and speech recognition, the car might be able to learn your preferences and you could bark out commands like, "Go around that slow poke".

 

[deadheadskier]

This statement is the crux of the problem. The expectation a rail line has to be profitable. We, as a society, have to come together and put $ into the public good. Not worry about profitability. We put tax dollars into the millions of miles of roads, and don't expect profitability. Maybe instead of adding a 4th lane to a highway, adding public transportation may make the 4th lane unnecessary. I am no way advocating or debating for this - but after seeing traffic grow so much around me, with new condo complexes being added to places without any public transportation - there really is no longer a way to build our way out with new roads and traffic signals. At some point we all have to agree to fix this. May not be for 50 years until we can no longer move our car around - but it also seems to be unsustainable growth.

Good idea. But can we get 495 to five lanes first? Turn it back to what it was up until 20 years ago? A bypass highway for the metro Boston traffic hell. Three lanes no longer cuts it. Manchester NH is the only city in New England these days with a highway system capable of handling the traffic that needs to get around it. Boston, Providence, Worcester, Hartford, New Haven.... everywhere else blows

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[Jully]

Jully, just so you know if I was to think about taking public transportation to Foxboro from my house it would be Commute rail from Beverly to Boston, orange line to Red line to South Station and then commuter rail from South station to Foxboro. Round trip cost would be $37. That pays for gas and parking if I take my car.

Haha it is FAR from seamless or even halfway ideally functional for a lot of the Boston area because of the North/South station situation. I'll add that the train to FXB from South Station also sucks (I've taken it). But these options are improving every year almost and theres motivation to improve it further.

FWIW I'm with you regarding the impracticality of living carless in a suburb too.

 

[deadheadskier]

Haha it is FAR from seamless or even halfway ideally functional for a lot of the Boston area because of the North/South station situation. I'll add that the train to FXB from South Station also sucks (I've taken it). But these options are improving every year almost and theres motivation to improve it further.

FWIW I'm with you regarding the impracticality of living carless in a suburb too.

Biggest blunder of the big dig was not connecting North and South station. Of the $20+ Billion they spent on that project it's a crime they couldn't figure that part out.

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[Scruffy]

People always argue that the car represents freedom in the U.S. and that not having a car prevents freedom.

I disagree. While getting a car might make you feel free when you're back in High School, commuting everyday by car is the least-free thing you can imagine. Traffic everywhere. At least in the Boston Metro area where I live.

And people always argue against trains because "with cars I can leave when I want". But what they don't realize is that they are not really leaving when they want in a car. Say you have to be at work by 9 in Boston and you live in southern NH, that 5 minutes that you have of flexibility in leaving could severely increase your commute time. Leaving 5-10 mins later than "usual" makes all the difference when its rush-hour traffic. I know people who wake up at 4:45 just to beat the morning commute (and still run into traffic)--thats also not leaving "when you want".

Rather than pushing the idea of a car as "freedom" we as a country should make our train systems more robust and push the idea of a trains as "reliability". Yes, a train has a fixed schedule, but good train service surpasses anything cars can offer (see Europe). And you can sleep/text during the commute!!

After a long day of skiing the last thing I want to do is drive the 3 hours home. If there was a train that took me home in 3 hours or less I would take it.

You live in the wrong place to believe that a car = freedom. Except it, and stop whining, Boston and most of Mass is a mess for travel. I live in the mountains and a car is not only necessary, it is complete freedom compared to my ancestors with only a horse or their own feet to get around. I can drive hundreds of miles a day, ski, fish, boat, climb, etc.. and still be home at night. And your Europe example visa vie trains vs cars is flawed. Yes Europe, by and large, invests more heavily in mass transit via much higher taxes, but have you been to Europe? They still have cars there, lots of them. They love their cars and spend a lot on them, even as they take the train to work every day. Lot's of Europe, and the UK and Scandinavia too, are small towns connected by both roads and rail. Sure there are big cities like London, Berlin, etc.. but get out of the city and it's like western Mass, think Stockbridge. This country is f#@ked because your govt. is bought and paid for by big business, and is so far in debt that big infrastructure builds, like the Eisenhower highway project are a thing of the past. And your govt. no longer gives a rats ass that you are stuck in traffic three-four hours of your day- that's your problem. There was never a master plan. Anything goes as long as it makes money for someone--we just keep building out our cities and pushing the limits of roads and rail with no plan of what to do if there are more people taking trains, for cars on the roads, etc..
So move, or take the train and deal with it's limitations. Or do what they do in Europe, take the train to commute, but own a car for that weekend freedom.

 

[lentilmaps]

Maybe it’s difficult to live completely car-less in most suburbs, but car-light is totally doable depending on your situation. We live in a suburb, first one out from Boston on the commuter rail. The Mr walks to the train and takes it to town daily. I commute by car out west, no good train option there. Had two cars for a while but used the second so infrequently that its battery kept dying, so we got rid of it. Kids do sports but luckily most are within a mile or so of home, easy to walk/bike if the car is in use.

A handful of times a year, we need a second car, so we rent one or take a Lyft. It’d take a lot of trips like that to equal the cost of a second car.

One thing transit-oriented development does is facilitate scaling back car use, even if it doesn’t totally replace cars. Maybe a family of four, like ours, will have just one car. Maybe someone in their twenties will have a car but not need to use it for every day commuting. It all helps decrease traffic/pollution, benefits everyone.

~lm


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[Smellytele]

I am 25 miles away from a place to take a bus let alone a train. A train is more than an hour away. Work is 45 minutes. I don't even drive on a highway to get to work.

 

[Jully]

Or do what they do in Europe, take the train to commute, but own a car for that weekend freedom.

Maybe it’s difficult to live completely car-less in most suburbs, but car-light is totally doable depending on your situation. We live in a suburb, first one out from Boston on the commuter rail. The Mr walks to the train and takes it to town daily. I commute by car out west, no good train option there. Had two cars for a while but used the second so infrequently that its battery kept dying, so we got rid of it. Kids do sports but luckily most are within a mile or so of home, easy to walk/bike if the car is in use.

A handful of times a year, we need a second car, so we rent one or take a Lyft. It’d take a lot of trips like that to equal the cost of a second car.

One thing transit-oriented development does is facilitate scaling back car use, even if it doesn’t totally replace cars. Maybe a family of four, like ours, will have just one car. Maybe someone in their twenties will have a car but not need to use it for every day commuting. It all helps decrease traffic/pollution, benefits everyone.

~lm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is how I live in Boston now and how I lived in Malden previously. I own a car for skiing with the added benefit of some freedom to do the occasional other trip in summer months/ to visit family in northern NE. The car gets used very minimally in the non-winter months compared to ski season though.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The people in this thread advocating for the spending of billions of dollars on new trains & tracks, reminds me of people investing in car phones a few years before the smartphone.

 

[abc]

Wow! The forum was only up for about 24 hrs, there’re 2 pages of anti-train arguments!

I wonder how many more pages it would have had the forum stay up for the week?

Next to guns, cars are the item most tied up in people’s self identity. “You have to ply it out of my cold dead hands”.