Spruce Triple - Sunday River, ME

[mbedle]

Wow, everyone is jumping on Borvig fast. This is a bit different, it is the concrete footing/anchor that gave way. Could it be a design flaw from Borvig engineering? Possibly. Could it be poor concrete from the supplier when poured? Possibly. Could it be bad site selection for the footing? Possibly. We'll have to wait for the investigation results to know for sure. I can tell you as I ski a ton there, where the Spruce top anchor is, that terrain it sits in is like a bowl. Rain water does not drain well away from that footing (or several of the tower footings towards the top as well). I have a feeling drainage will be sited as a major factor here. If the ground started giving first, allowing a touch of movement of the anchor, that could have been enough force to then rip apart the concrete/rebar structure like you see if a picture. That anchor has to exert a massive amount of force 24/7 just to counter the empty lift.

My guess is if they repair, the top terminal gets moved above the current unload (like more in line almost with the patrol shack at the top) to give that footing better drainage. As for the carpet, it could not be used with a Quad. It is not wide enough for four abreast loading.

The drainage is a good theory combined with maybe a bad batch of concrete. Weak layer with water infiltration, freeze/thaw condition would ultimately cause a failure. Based on what looks to be staining in the area of the re-bar, I would guess at this point, you are correct.

 

[machski]

Yeah I really don't understand that either. There was never a line for that chair the couple of times I was there but then again there weren't lines for any lift except the tram. A six pack in there will only make the lines for the tram longer. I think the tram only holds 16 people at a time.

I have heard rumors they eventually want to put a gondola up from the base by swift current to the base of the Lone peak chair. That can be the only reason for HSS (and I guess they could always make the gondola into a Chondi and link it onto the HSS later if they wanted). Otherwise, seems like overkill and wasted $$ to me.

 

[ss20]

That is catastrophic. What's terrifying is that this is something that could've happened any day...summer or winter.

Not gonna jump the shark on Borvig yet either. Pouring the concrete footings is something the lift construction company would be responsible for. I am sure the lift engineering company way over-engineers tensioning terminal weight (if anyone looks at counterweight blocks...you won't see them move too much...even in the most sudden of stops).

I'd say this is more of mother nature's doing than Borvig's, Boyne's, or the lift construction company's fault. Catastrophic failures don't just happen to basic non-moving parts like this unless there's a flaw in engineering (which probably would've resulted in failure within the first 5 season of the lift...not year 30) or the unknown effects of rainwater/deterioration (winner winner chicken dinner I'm willing to bet).

 

[ss20]

To my point of over-engineering...Mount Snow removed their SKi Baba beginner lift this summer (ironically enough a Borvig lift as well). This is the counterweight... for a 500 foot beginner lift...it's massive.

 

[shwilly]

Was there any lager rain events recently at the Mountain? It looks like the ground the foundation was on just gave way. I was in Acadia all last week and It barely rained there, but that area is also hundreds of miles from Sunday River.

The weekend was mostly drizzly. There were a few periods of solid rain on Saturday, none sustained. Overall, it was rainy and the ground was wet and muddy, but nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[machski]

This is as good of an early take on this as i have seen (and a respected lift info site).
https://liftblog.com/2016/07/13/sunday-river-lift-severely-damaged-as-terminal-falls/#more-24693

 

[SkiFanE]

Have to admit I'm surprised by the blaming tone of this thread. So which mountain would you buy a pass at where you are 100% certain you will never receive a scratch, ever, considering you dangle from a chair up 50ft in the sky? Life is a crapshoot and I believe I'm more likely to be killed by a Pokemon chasing driver or Tesla Autopilot than this type of event. Definitely a "strange shit happens" event. Thankful it happened when it did - and maybe in frozen ground/winter it never would have happened. That's one of my favorite peaks at SR, and a fave lift - I'm an oddball lol. Over last 10 years I've felt comfy with the maintenance at SR and their willingness to shut down lifts whenever necessary for safety - no matter how busy that lift may be. To me, a lift built in the 80s is not something requiring replacement - then 100% of all mountains would need replacement. Heck - how old are the planes you all take getting to/from your ski trips out west, and you're up 30k+ feet in a tin can possibly as old.

I have complete faith SR will handle this safely and in due time. They sent email to passholders with the "news". Sucks for them.

 

[thetrailboss]

I thought it was interesting that the NE Ski News Article made one reference to Boyne. The author mentions CNL in two or three places and says that CNL installed lifts. I thought it was a joint venture of sorts. Maybe that is not wrong.

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=456

 

[thetrailboss]

And FWIW this was a 30 year old chairlift. I imagine that it was nearing the end of its design life. I imagine that there will be more similar issues in the future since many areas are using older lifts that have not been updated.

 

[ss20]

And FWIW this was a 30 year old chairlift. I imagine that it was nearing the end of its design life. I imagine that there will be more similar issues in the future since many areas are using older lifts that have not been updated.

30 years is just over the hump in lift life expectancy...not the end of it's life.

 

[steamboat1]

I wonder if adding a loading carpet & increasing the speed the chair runs had anything to do with it? The lift surely wasn't designed to run 20% faster which it did with loading carpet..

 

[thetrailboss]

I wonder if adding a loading carpet & increasing the speed the chair runs had anything to do with it? The lift surely wasn't designed to run 20% faster which it did with loading carpet..

Good point.

 

[thetrailboss]

30 years is just over the hump in lift life expectancy...not the end of it's life.

You think that this lift had a life expectancy of 50 years? I've heard that number thrown out for lifts in general.

 

[Newpylong]

I wonder if adding a loading carpet & increasing the speed the chair runs had anything to do with it? The lift surely wasn't designed to run 20% faster which it did with loading carpet..

The main FPM limit is due to loading issues at higher speeds, not mechanical. Lifts are engineered and built to run faster than the Tramway allows them to. Most fixed grip lifts can mechanically operate safely in the 600 FPM range.

 

[steamboat1]

I thought it was interesting that the NE Ski News Article made one reference to Boyne. The author mentions CNL in two or three places and says that CNL installed lifts. I thought it was a joint venture of sorts. Maybe that is not wrong.

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=456

It's my understanding that CNL owns the land, equipment & infrastructure & therefore pays for any new lifts. Boyne operates the ski area & is responsible for maintenance & inspection of the lifts. What happened sounds above & beyond what normal maintenance & inspection entails. Is Boyne responsible for the cost of what is above & beyond normal maintenance & inspection or is CNL?

 

[thetrailboss]

Boyne operates the ski area & is responsible for maintenance & inspection of the lifts.

This. We're going to find out in the next few weeks who is responsible for this incident. I just see that it is another Boyne Resort and you have to wonder. And I say this as someone who thinks that Boyne is a good company and has done a good job with these resorts. Maybe it is not their fault, but boy something is wrong here. Three major lift failures in a few years is a serious black eye. Maybe it is CNL. Maybe it is Borvig.

What happened sounds above & beyond what normal maintenance & inspection entails. Is Boyne responsible for the cost of what is above & beyond normal maintenance & inspection or is CNL?

Yes, I don't know the arrangement here.

 

[mbedle]

This. We're going to find out in the next few weeks who is responsible for this incident. I just see that it is another Boyne Resort and you have to wonder. And I say this as someone who thinks that Boyne is a good company and has done a good job with these resorts. Maybe it is not their fault, but boy something is wrong here. Three major lift failures in a few years is a serious black eye. Maybe it is CNL. Maybe it is Borvig.



Yes, I don't know the arrangement here.

Based on what I read, it appears that they are required to put a certain amount of rental money away, for use to improve these properties.

 

[Riverveteran]

Blame Boyne, blame CNL - this lift was installed during the Otten growth spurt at SR. The majority of the infrastructure built during that tenure is vastly deteriorated. We are dedicated SR skiers but the future concerns me. Lifts that need replaced, not a lodge or on mountain accommodations that qualify as being modern.

 

[thetrailboss]

Blame Boyne, blame CNL - this lift was installed during the Otten growth spurt at SR. The majority of the infrastructure built during that tenure is vastly deteriorated. We are dedicated SR skiers but the future concerns me. Lifts that need replaced, not a lodge or on mountain accommodations that qualify as being modern.

Unfortunately a lot of other resorts are operating with very old infrastructure since there has not been much growth, or access to capital, since the 1990's. Look at Killington--they have some old lifts. Pico as well. Yet only Boyne/CNL have had three Borvig lifts have catastrophic disasters. Perhaps bad luck?

 

[Hawkshot99]

It's my understanding that CNL owns the land, equipment & infrastructure & therefore pays for any new lifts. Boyne operates the ski area & is responsible for maintenance & inspection of the lifts. What happened sounds above & beyond what normal maintenance & inspection entails. Is Boyne responsible for the cost of what is above & beyond normal maintenance & inspection or is CNL?

I worked as a department manager for many years at a resort that was bought by CNL. Over the years we talked quite a bit about the operation with CNL.

CNL is the landlord, SR is the tenant. Same arrangement as if CNL owned a strip mall, and SR a store located in the mall. SR wants to make some changes to the store, such as add walls(or a new lift). CNL must approve these infrastructure changes, but SR pays for them.

Basically Sunday River runs and is responsible for the operation and functions of the mountain. CNL is not there all the time checking on how the place is being run. They are just cashing there rent checks. If Sunday River wants to go do a expensive improvement that they can not afford, CNL will give them very favorable loan terms for these improvements.

Every year the tenant (SR) is required to put a % of there profits back into the property. This can be improvements, such as lifts, or maintenance.

This lift failure is entirely on Sunday River, or possibly the lift manufacture. I would clear them as it has been over 30 years since install.