Spruce Triple - Sunday River, ME

[ss20]

If they do not get a lift operational there, the may be able to do some limited snowmaking on 3 mile trail (it doesn't take much snow to open anyway) which allows direct access from Barker summit to the peak lodge. I have no doubt hiking will be allowed up Sirius if no lift.

I think a hike-to-only terrain season would be a lot of fun. When the Jackson Hole Tram was being replaced for a season (or was it two seasons?) they put in a short double to the top which was supposedly legendary. SR should go for a similar concept here and hype up the limited access rather than take it as a deterrent.

Me thinks it's too late to get a new lift up there, but I've been wrong before (just not much)

 

[Cat in January]

I have no doubt hiking will be allowed up Sirius if no lift.

Not sure if I share your conviction. Has SR ever allowed hiking in the past? Yes I know we did it, but has an area without lift access ever been opened up before? I know SL has when I have been there, but have not known it at SR.

 

[machski]

Not sure if I share your conviction. Has SR ever allowed hiking in the past? Yes I know we did it, but has an area without lift access ever been opened up before? I know SL has when I have been there, but have not known it at SR.

Well, not that much terrain up there and ski patrol does have a good hut to hang out in at the top of Spruce. I can see this happening. Similar a bit to when they run the Oz quad while all other western peaks are on wind hold (even Spruce). Yes, it has a lift but there is no patrol shack there and you are on an island that only those that got there before Spruce shut could reach.

 

[machski]

Me thinks it's too late to get a new lift up there, but I've been wrong before (just not much)

Probably too late to replace with a detach in time, still time to replace with a new FG (especially if most of the towers can be reused) and definitely plenty of time to install a new top terminal and any other repairs. It will be interesting to see which way they go.

 

[chuckstah]

Not sure if I share your conviction. Has SR ever allowed hiking in the past? Yes I know we did it, but has an area without lift access ever been opened up before? I know SL has when I have been there, but have not known it at SR.

This past spring when the Barker chair was down for a weekend hiking was allowed up Jungle Rd to access the top of Barker and beyond to Spruce. I agree with Machski that hiking will certainly be allowed if it comes to that.

 

[ss20]

Probably too late to replace with a detach in time, still time to replace with a new FG (especially if most of the towers can be reused) and definitely plenty of time to install a new top terminal and any other repairs. It will be interesting to see which way they go.

I'm only quoting you for reference.

I've heard a few people say to re-use the towers...but if the foundation of the top terminal failed I'm sure they want to get rid of any underground footings whatsoever.

 

[Jully]

Probably too late to replace with a detach in time, still time to replace with a new FG (especially if most of the towers can be reused) and definitely plenty of time to install a new top terminal and any other repairs. It will be interesting to see which way they go.

Is SR really considering a detach? Or is that just pure speculation on our part? Theres no master plan floating around anywhere right? Turning Spruce into a detach is one of the last things I would expect.

 

[deadheadskier]

I wouldn't think they'd need the capacity on Spruce.

 

[ss20]

Is SR really considering a detach? Or is that just pure speculation on our part? Theres no master plan floating around anywhere right? Turning Spruce into a detach is one of the last things I would expect.

I think Machski is talking in theoreticals. Theoretically, if they wanted a detachable, it's too late because that's a lot more work/time to install than a fixed grip lift.

No reason for a hsq on Spruce. Not enough trail capacity anyway. Upper Tourist Trap would be even more insane.

 

[machski]

I think Machski is talking in theoreticals. Theoretically, if they wanted a detachable, it's too late because that's a lot more work/time to install than a fixed grip lift.

No reason for a hsq on Spruce. Not enough trail capacity anyway. Upper Tourist Trap would be even more insane.

I have never heard anyone talk of a detach upgrade at Spruce when I've talked with mgmt. I was just addressing speculation and some penchant for that type of upgrade. Personally, I'd like it but only to speed up moving from the "classic side" to Jordan/Oz. But what's a 4 minute faster ride actually get you?

As for tower footings vs the summit anchor, these are 2 different types of pour with totally different loads acting on them. The summit anchor had to counter the lateral force of the line tension force applied around the bull wheel. Tower footings only support the tower on the vertical line of the tower. There is very little if any lateral force on those. Look closely at North Peak Express next season. At least half the tower tubes and foundations for that lift are the old North Peak Triple's (Borvig). Of course, any current lift manufacturer would ensure structural integrity of the footings and towers to their lift requirements.

 

[zoomzoom]

" There is very little if any lateral force on those (tower footings) "

i must respectfully disagree, tower footings must be sufficiently sized to withstand overturning from wind-loads. with a typical 100mph design wind speed in new england, the lift designer must take into consideration the effective area of the uphill and downhill hauling ropes, uphill carriers with passengers, downhill carriers with no passengers, tower tubes (including tower height), and the tower crossarms with assemblies.

for example: towers are spaced 250ft apart, 1 3/8cable, 50ft carrier spacing, double chairs, 24inch tower tubes, 8ft long sheave trains 24inches high. the designer will add up the effective areas for half the distance above and half the distance below the tower in question. as you can see, the moment on the footing from windloading is significant and must be countered. and there must be a factor of safety of two.

have heard that the stratton gondola has wind speed measuring/recording devices at the top station and a few line towers. one morning the lift mechanic noted a max speed of 124mph before the anemometer failed the previous evening.

 

[SkiFanE]

Spruce is definitely hike able from Sirius - did it a few times last winter. But I don't think people consider if top of spruce is skiable without a boatload of manmade. Is there enough natural to cover downdrafts boulders? I wouldn't bother hiking for terrain above 3 mile unless it was downdraft. And that bottom rock/cliff got me last season - literally side stepped down last 100 yards on 3" of edge downdraft - rest was ice glacier. Other hardier souls would have just careened down and prayed for the best - but I'm not so risky lol. And that was open trail with manmade coverage.

 

[SkiFanE]

And I admit I'm sick of the online speculative experts weighing in based on a few pictures. Let SR digest this all and come up with a solid plan for the future, not just 2016/17. I'm hoping for a nice slow replacement - HSQ would take away exactly what I love about spruce.

 

[yeggous]

" There is very little if any lateral force on those (tower footings) "

i must respectfully disagree, tower footings must be sufficiently sized to withstand overturning from wind-loads. with a typical 100mph design wind speed in new england, the lift designer must take into consideration the effective area of the uphill and downhill hauling ropes, uphill carriers with passengers, downhill carriers with no passengers, tower tubes (including tower height), and the tower crossarms with assemblies.

for example: towers are spaced 250ft apart, 1 3/8cable, 50ft carrier spacing, double chairs, 24inch tower tubes, 8ft long sheave trains 24inches high. the designer will add up the effective areas for half the distance above and half the distance below the tower in question. as you can see, the moment on the footing from windloading is significant and must be countered. and there must be a factor of safety of two.

have heard that the stratton gondola has wind speed measuring/recording devices at the top station and a few line towers. one morning the lift mechanic noted a max speed of 124mph before the anemometer failed the previous evening.

124 mph wind is what we call Tuesday at Wildcat.


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[freeski]

I just need to be able to get to the Spruce Cliffs. :wink:

 

[jerryg]

Said no one... ever! :dunce:

I just need to be able to get to the Spruce Cliffs. :wink:

 

[jerryg]

Someone else mentioned that Borvig was quickly approaching YAN status in terms of the serious catastrophic failures attributed to YAN's HSQ grips. Frankly, I may be in the minority here or anywhere outside of California, but I think YAN - as a whole - gets a bad rap. Was the dude a little nutty? Sure. Was there a major design flaw in the HSQ grips that lead to deaths? Yes. However, long before any of that, YAN was installing doubles and triples all around the state of California, along with many other western states. What is rarely ever mentioned is that many of those lifts are still in service as the original lift or as relocated lift. Now Mach will correctly tell you that these fixed grips were all re-fitted with replacement grips, which happened after the HSQ accidents, but that was a mandate from the legal fallout. I believe there was a death from a lift accident at Lee Canyon, NV, (May have been LV Ski & SB Resort at the time) which may have gone a long way toward this. Regardless, YAN fixed grip lifts had been operating for over a decade and a half before any of this. What makes YAN unique in this respect is that people died and the resorts were major players in western skiing. I think that if people had died from these Borvig accidents, the fallout may be completely different, and may still be, depending on what the investigation finds. Either way, I love Borvig and YAN lifts. Is there an issue with Boyne lifts? Absolutely, but I don't fault the manufacturers at present. I think SR has been very open about what went on and it may have just been unavoidably freak, but the SL stuff bothers me more. I think 'operator error' comes to mind.

 

[Newpylong]

YAN fixed grips are as solid as they come for sure.

 

[thetrailboss]

YAN fixed grips are as solid as they come for sure.

Assuming the bullwheels are all fine.


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[ss20]

YAN fixed grips are as solid as they come for sure.

Good looking too.