Study on ski helmets

[fbrissette]

Sort of the same for me. We switched from road biking to bicycle trails. L'Estraide in Granby is one of our favorites.

Why would you ride in Granby when you have the Kingdom trails in your backyard ?

 

[VTKilarney]

Why would you ride in Granby when you have the Kingdom trails in your backyard ?

We aren't mountain bikers.

 

[abc]

The problem isn't that helmets aren't helping. The problem is behavior is changing. People are taking more risks in some cases specifically because they think a helmet will prevent serious injuries.

It might be beneficial to separate helmets from increased risk taking. They are separable, unless you ski with the mentality that "my helmet made me do it."

Partly this. Having a helmet may push some people into a false sense of security, but skiing has also gotten more extreme for many reasons. In 40 years, ski hills went from removing lift tickets for any kind of jumping, to providing fully featured terrain parks. All of this in addition to the industry glorifying extreme skiing.

The helmet debate is going along a parallel path as the debate on airbag in cars.

Insurance data shows airbag barely made a dent in overall injury rates. But look at the environment we're driving in:

1) There was a time when 55mph was the nationwide top speed limit. Now, that's about as slow as you would go on an unobstructed freeway, in snow and rain!

2) Population density had gone way up. So roads are generally far more congested.

Basically, we've been driving faster and faster. And there're a lot more of us on the road!

Had it not for airbags, the injury rate would have gone up as both the speed and density went up over the years. The fact the injury rate was kept flat is actually proof they worked!

So, keeping your helmets on. There's plenty of justification if you need them. As for me, I think a warm head is in a good position to make sound decisions. One of those decision is keeping my ski helmet on till June!

Talk about going around in circles. :-D

 

[VTKilarney]

Another analogy is all wheel drive and 4wd vehicles. The death rate for these vehicles is not any lower than the death rate for 2wd vehicles.

And yet 99% of drivers will tell you that their all wheel drive vehicle makes them safer in the winter.

 

[BenedictGomez]

skiing has also gotten more extreme for many reasons. In 40 years, ski hills went from removing lift tickets for any kind of jumping, to providing fully featured terrain parks. All of this in addition to the industry glorifying extreme skiing.

Yup. That was one of the first things I thought about when I considered the "long-term" data, it's not apples to apples as participants are generally engaging in more risky behavior at far higher rates.

 

[Jully]

Another analogy is all wheel drive and 4wd vehicles. The death rate for these vehicles is not any lower than the death rate for 2wd vehicles.

And yet 99% of drivers will tell you that their all wheel drive vehicle makes them safer in the winter.

That isn't quite a perfect analogy though, is it?

Helmets provide some protection from head injury. Car crashes are caused most frequently in the snow by being unable to stop, 4wd does nothing to help you stop.

There is a strong behavioral argument for your analogy, but its confounded in helmets because helmets do help.

 

[VTKilarney]

That isn't quite a perfect analogy though, is it?

There is a strong behavioral argument for your analogy, but its confounded in helmets because helmets do help.

I was just offering it as an example of something that makes people think that their overall risk of injury is lower when in reality it is not. It was not offered for anything more.

 

[bdfreetuna]

4wd does nothing to help you stop.

Trying to stop quick isn't how to avoid snow accidents though. AWD/4WD is very useful in accelerating & steering out of the way of impending collision in the snow.

The only possible explanation for 4WD trucks and SUVs not being safer in the snow is people just drive faster in the snow because the vehicle has higher limits. Thus apparently neutralizing the safety aspect.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The best combo is AWD or 4WD with snow tires.

That way you get the traction & acceleration benefit as well as the stopping & turning benefit.

 

[kingslug]

A few years ago driving back to the airport in Utah in a snowstorm I counted 20 accidents..mostly 4 wd trucks that smashed into the divider..you can slide just as easily with 2WD as 4WD if you are going to fast.
Back to helmets..why wouldn't you wear one? seems like a no brainer. Warmer, doesn't get soaking wet in a storm..music..and it protects your noggin in a fall.

 

[Smellytele]

4wd vs rwd is less of the loose backend during acceleration. 4wd vs fwd only helps with starting out and getting unstuck after the point.


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[Smellytele]

As for a helmet the worse concussion I ever got was while wearing a helmet. Nice 40 degree day made the mistake of wearing sunglasses. Caught an edge and face planted. More like forehead planted. Goggles may have helped but helmet went back and when I came to couldn’t remember where I was, where I parked or where I left my boot bag. Being the idiot I was took 2 more runs but each time couldn’t remember the last one. Luckily my 17 year old son was with me and could drive me home. Ended up having head aches for six months and short term memory was toast.
Think I am better now. What was I talking about?


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[abc]

4wd vs rwd is less of the loose backend during acceleration. 4wd vs fwd only helps with starting out and getting unstuck after the point.

Bingo!

Ask all the 4wd owners and see how many understand THAT!

 

[kbroderick]

4wd vs rwd is less of the loose backend during acceleration. 4wd vs fwd only helps with starting out and getting unstuck after the point.

It's not just acceleration, though; it's also steady throttle when operating against things like air resistance. Having the ass end step out on the highway because you found a bit of black ice is very, very attention-getting. AWD or fancier "4WD" systems that can redirect power on slippage will generally prevent that, as well, which in turn increases the perceived traction until the driver does something other than drive in a straight line. Leaving a truck in RWD means that you'll (usually) get the ass end to step out before you lose steering; at sub-highway speeds, that tends to be an easier recovery. At full interstate speed, I'm not sure if my reaction speed is good enough to deal with that, and I hope not to find out.

As far as the study goes, I didn't see any indication that it was controlled against skier-days, either. So it's hard to know if the injury rate actually changed in the same direction as the injury volume. People with minor head injuries usually don't bother going to the hospital, nor do those who escape head injuries, so it's really, really hard to know how often helmets mitigated impacts that otherwise would have resulted in hospitalization and/or serious injury. I know I've taken hits to the helmet that I would have expected to result in at least minor concussions without one; one of the more memorable was making medium-radius turns on a steep groomer, having an edge hook up suddenly, and highsiding to the back of my head. I'm convinced that would have been a lot worse unhelmeted; as it was, I took a deep breath and skied away.

As already noted, it also doesn't control against skier types. It would be interesting if someone could find good-enough data to compare head injuries in ski racing before and after the newest FIS helmet regulations (requiring a level of protection greater than that generally specified for ski helmets per ANSI and CE specs).

 

[JamesKnt]

The reason why the injuries are still on the rise is due to the over-representation of bikes on the road. Because bikes are more visible than other transports, riders find it cool to ride at high speeds causing accidents.

 

[hub8]

I'm intrigued by James Kunt's postings. Has a few relevant keywords, but follows no rhyme nor logic. No ads either. Perhaps a keyword based AI bot?

 

[cdskier]

I'm intrigued by James Kunt's postings. Has a few relevant keywords, but follows no rhyme nor logic. No ads either. Perhaps a keyword based AI bot?

I was wondering this as well... Odd to say the least...