Sugarloaf West Mtn Expansion and HSQ officially a go

[ss20]

Lifts are all custom built anyway so I'm not sure what "special order" in this context is even supposed to mean. Slightly longer lead time maybe? Both manufacturers still build surface lifts and fixed grip chairs so it's not like they have a minimum dollar value on installations or have decided to get rid of the factory equipment/space just because there's not as many orders as there used to be.

Yes but many parts/pieces are the same. Crossarms, sheave sizing, ops shack, pretty much all terminal pieces. It's much easier to forecast your demand if 90% of your installs are 6packs, 8packs, gondolas, and fixed-grip quads. You can order materials and start building pieces before you even get an order from the customer. If you have everything from a fixed grip double-quad, surface lifts, and hs4's,6's, and 8's you can't forecast nearly as easily. You can't build in advance. You don't know if you'll sell 4 hs6's and 8hsq's or vice-versa. If you standardize you know you'll at least sell 10 lifts as 6's and can start building those pieces early on.

Also remember North America is the smallest fish in the pond. Europe and urban installations are where a massive majority of projects are. The North American hsq market is literally under 10% of the total installs for Dopp/Poma. I looked at lift installs for Europe that debuted this season. IIRC- 20something 6's and 8's and 2 hsq's.

 

[thetrailboss]

Update as to another Boyne resort.

So Sugarloafers and other NE Boyne skiers do not have to worry about Brighton's Crest coming your way, but it MAY be going into the refurbishment program. I rode the lift last night with a long-time Brighton ski patroller. Night skiing will see another boost next year with a few more night trails added. When they remove Crest this summer and add the new six-pack (sans bubbles) they will replace some of the old incandescent lighting on that side with LED lights.

Crest HSQ will be removed and evaluated for refurbishment. If it is cost-effective to reuse a substantial amount of it, then it will likely find a home within a few thousand feet and just outside the current Brighton boundary. Brighton has had long-term plans to expand just beyond Great Western into an area known as "Hidden Valley" and if the USFS approves then the Crest HSQ will end up there.

Doppelmayr installed Crest in 1991 just after Boyne bought the majority interest of Brighton. Boyne and the Doyles had some pretty big ideas for Brighton including Great Western, Snake Creek, Hidden Valley, and even a two-lift expansion on the backside to allow folks from the Wasatch Back. Crest was a part of that master plan and was installed. Great Western and Snake Creek came shortly thereafter. The backside obviously has not happened.

Brighton is also building a mid-mountain lodge just uphill from Snake Creek. It is a simple one story building, but it will be nice.

So Sugarloafers can breathe easy--Crest is not coming east. If it is reused it will move just over to the other side of Brighton in a new area.

And if any Boyne east coasters are getting disillusioned with the weather, Brighton is going off with a 116" base and everything skiing very well. I know that some passholders will have discounted, if not free days, at Brighton and Big Sky just up the road.

 

[machski]

Wasn't that one day?

Yes, but you know Social Media. Lift is already tagged a POS by many.

 

[thetrailboss]

Yes, but you know Social Media. Lift is already tagged a POS by many.

Again, I saw multiple posts over a period of many days. Someone from SR can comment as to what really happened. I don't think that folks are saying it is a "POS". It is a new lift and has to have systems adjusted and bugs worked out. It's just hard because it is an important lift for that side of Sunday River and it has been a really bad snow season so folks want to have more terrain available and open.

 

[Andrew B.]

Right. Will they have a kiosk?
Sugarloaf still has a lot of counter sales when I was there last year. Didn’t have kiosks that I saw. Friends went to the counter. Actually didn’t see any at Sunday River or loon but wasn’t looking for them either.

You can barely find a human to help with day ticket purchases at SR. Kiosks everywhere

They closed the ticket windows completely at Barker and White Cap

 

[thetrailboss]

You can barely find a human to help with day ticket purchases at SR. Kiosks everywhere

They closed the ticket windows completely at Barker and White Cap

I'd be interested to know how many day tickets they sell. I would expect not that many. Sugarloaf's windows had a steady stream of folks but while I waited it was mainly customer service issues such as vouchers, buddy passes, etc. They were very pleasant to work with. I cannot say enough good about our trip to Sugarloaf two weeks ago.

 

[Newpylong]

You can barely find a human to help with day ticket purchases at SR. Kiosks everywhere

They closed the ticket windows completely at Barker and White Cap

Killington got rid of any in person ticket purchases but the Guest Service desks are still staffed at all *5* base lodges for folks that have buying issues or questions. Is there anyone on staff at WC or Barker like this or all gone?

 

[bigbob]

You can barely find a human to help with day ticket purchases at SR. Kiosks everywhere

They closed the ticket windows completely at Barker and White Cap

Since working humans are in short supply these days buisness are finding ways to replace humans wherever possible. I would rather have a human doing more important tasks such as bumping chairs or as a ski patrol.

 

[deadheadskier]

Thought of this thread at Market Basket at 4PM today. Only half the lanes open with 3 deep at least at most of the check out lines.

The Hannaford two towns over took out two traditional lines and replaced them with 6 self checkout in the same footprint. Made a huge difference.

Automation is the way to go

 

[machski]

Again, I saw multiple posts over a period of many days. Someone from SR can comment as to what really happened. I don't think that folks are saying it is a "POS". It is a new lift and has to have systems adjusted and bugs worked out. It's just hard because it is an important lift for that side of Sunday River and it has been a really bad snow season so folks want to have more terrain available and open.

Well, Jordan seems to be pretty much ironed out. Every lift was spinning this weekend and today save for Merrill Hill.

 

[Newpylong]

What's going on with that? Not even my friend (who put in all the snowmaking there) knows. Not enough development completed yet to get the lift and trails going?

 

[ceo]

I'm pretty sure neither Poma nor Doppelmayr builds anything, whether it's the same across all lifts of a given type or not, without an order in hand. Inventory is expensive, and they have plenty to keep them busy without building stuff on spec.

 

[IceEidolon]

I'm pretty sure neither Poma nor Doppelmayr builds anything, whether it's the same across all lifts of a given type or not, without an order in hand. Inventory is expensive, and they have plenty to keep them busy without building stuff on spec.

They could pipeline identical parts for their yearly needs, though, and that would be improved by cutting the number of different models they make.

Definitely not a lifts expert here, but couldn't you build your detach and fixed grip quads to the same guage? Obviously your terminals are different and you probably need different sheaves but as far as towers and crossarms go, are HSQ towers really that different from their fixed grip cousins?

 

[cdskier]

They could pipeline identical parts for their yearly needs, though, and that would be improved by cutting the number of different models they make.

Definitely not a lifts expert here, but couldn't you build your detach and fixed grip quads to the same guage? Obviously your terminals are different and you probably need different sheaves but as far as towers and crossarms go, are HSQ towers really that different from their fixed grip cousins?

I was thinking the same thing that there should be a decent amount of commonality between some of the parts for a FGQ vs HSQ. And FGQ lifts will certainly continue to have a market for quite some time.

 

[thebigo]

Update as to another Boyne resort.

So Sugarloafers and other NE Boyne skiers do not have to worry about Brighton's Crest coming your way, but it MAY be going into the refurbishment program. I rode the lift last night with a long-time Brighton ski patroller. Night skiing will see another boost next year with a few more night trails added. When they remove Crest this summer and add the new six-pack (sans bubbles) they will replace some of the old incandescent lighting on that side with LED lights.

Crest HSQ will be removed and evaluated for refurbishment. If it is cost-effective to reuse a substantial amount of it, then it will likely find a home within a few thousand feet and just outside the current Brighton boundary. Brighton has had long-term plans to expand just beyond Great Western into an area known as "Hidden Valley" and if the USFS approves then the Crest HSQ will end up there.

Doppelmayr installed Crest in 1991 just after Boyne bought the majority interest of Brighton. Boyne and the Doyles had some pretty big ideas for Brighton including Great Western, Snake Creek, Hidden Valley, and even a two-lift expansion on the backside to allow folks from the Wasatch Back. Crest was a part of that master plan and was installed. Great Western and Snake Creek came shortly thereafter. The backside obviously has not happened.

Brighton is also building a mid-mountain lodge just uphill from Snake Creek. It is a simple one story building, but it will be nice.

So Sugarloafers can breathe easy--Crest is not coming east. If it is reused it will move just over to the other side of Brighton in a new area.

And if any Boyne east coasters are getting disillusioned with the weather, Brighton is going off with a 116" base and everything skiing very well. I know that some passholders will have discounted, if not free days, at Brighton and Big Sky just up the road.

Unless the relocated Crest terminates on the great western side of the ridge, doesn't appear that a single lift will get you out of that drainage.

 

[machski]

What's going on with that? Not even my friend (who put in all the snowmaking there) knows. Not enough development completed yet to get the lift and trails going?

I was wondering if you knew. No idea, I thought it odd when the new trail map dropped and none of the MH runs showed the snowmaking*. I know Double Refraction has the new Klik hydrants that can be used with older first gen low -E sticks all connected up with the old can head low E sticks. Maybe just waiting for at least one home to be occupant ready as none are yet? They may have enough natural to open MH on after this coming week if weather finally pans out to forecast.

 

[thetrailboss]

Unless the relocated Crest terminates on the great western side of the ridge, doesn't appear that a single lift will get you out of that drainage.

View attachment 56017

Yeah, I don't know if it is going to be a pod that relies on getting people out by going back through to Great Western or if it is going to be another "base to summit" lift. Frankly, I was surprised that he said this was in the works because the ski areas in the Wasatch have a non-binding agreement (Mountain Accord) to NOT expand beyond their "current boundaries." But "current boundaries" includes land that they own/have access to and were already set to possibly be developed in the existing master plans. It sounds like this terrain is in their approved master plan and now they want to activate it.

Frankly, I'm pretty excited about this prospect for my "local" Boyne Resort that honestly treats me pretty damn well. This is my fifth or sixth season with a season pass product at Brighton and they treat me well even with a "limited" pass product (Twilight Season Pass).

And bringing it back to Sugarloaf, we had a very nice stay with a very high level of service. Everyone was friendly. Grooming was great as was snowmaking coverage. We got a good price on a room at the Sugarloaf Mountain Hotel and we very much enjoyed our stay. This expansion is a nice addition and will relieve some pressure on SuperQuad as well as give homeowners at West Mountain much better access.

 

[thebigo]

And bringing it back to Sugarloaf, we had a very nice stay with a very high level of service. Everyone was friendly. Grooming was great as was snowmaking coverage. We got a good price on a room at the Sugarloaf Mountain Hotel and we very much enjoyed our stay. This expansion is a nice addition and will relieve some pressure on SuperQuad as well as give homeowners at West Mountain much better acaccess.

Sugarloaf is currently reporting 439 acres while killington is showing 381 acres. Were you skiing mostly natural or has boyne built yet another omnipotent snowmaking system at the loaf?

 

[thetrailboss]

Sugarloaf is currently reporting 439 acres while killington is showing 381 acres. Were you skiing mostly natural or has boyne built yet another omnipotent snowmaking system at the loaf?

Both.

This was two weeks ago mind you. They had some natural that made some of the upper mountain stuff barely skiable but pretty firm and frozen gran. The snowmaking runs were deep and well-covered. We used to post resort news in the old AZ and I wish we still did because I had no idea about what Sugarloaf had done this season with the snowmaking improvements. They built a large, new pumphouse just above Bullwinkles, installed new computerized controls, and installed new and more powerful pumps. I saw a lot of HKD Klik guns on the main runs off of SuperQuad. This year's improvements increased capacity by 75% from what I understood. A long-time ski patroller who I shared a lift with told me that the snowmaking manager can literally control the system on his smartphone at his house. Several locals told me that the improvements have made a huge difference in the number of trails they can make snow as well as the amount of snow they can make during a window of time. Again, it really showed. I should post some pics.

 

[Newpylong]

The amount of snowmaking improvements that Boyne has done across the board is monumental. The driver of them is the ex-Peak VP of Projects who is now focused on snowmaking.