The most EPIC KILLINGTON = FAIL of all time?

[drjeff]

How many of those X hundred ticket buyers were paying full price? How many weren't using any sort of coupon? How many were renting? How many were buying lessons?

Late season is not as much of a cash cow as it may appear to be. Disregarding the May date they advertised, if they thought they had a reasonable shot at making money, they'd still be open. Obviously the snowstorm makes a difference, but what if temperatures had ended up a few degrees warmer?

LOGICAL response

Handsome-

No instructors. Ticket prices are at a set rate. Seriously, rentals? You really are in the wrong crowd.

Looking like complete D*Bags to the community while attempting to push a real estate debacle down a towns throat= Epic Fail.

EMOTIONAL response

That's what's defining so much of this debate

 

[Brownsville Brooklyn]

LOGICAL response



EMOTIONAL response

That's what's defining so much of this debate

wheres Brooklyn, CT? i told a kid at sundown i was from brooklyn, CT he says with that accent you have no one will belive you

 

[drjeff]

wheres Brooklyn, CT? i told a kid at sundown i was from brooklyn, CT he says with that accent you have no one will belive you

Take Route 6 all the way to the RI border and then come back into CT about 5 miles. Look for all the cows and you've found Brooklyn, CT

 

[thorski]

I live here, at the 2,200' level, and I'm really looking hard for that foot of snow we're supposed to be getting. Couldn't see much higher up than Snowshed most of the day (if that far) but upper Snowshed was merely dusted over.

How is the shoveling going now bubba? The plows are out. :beer:
We live there too.

 

[skiadikt]

How many of those X hundred ticket buyers were paying full price? How many weren't using any sort of coupon? How many were renting? How many were buying lessons?

Late season is not as much of a cash cow as it may appear to be. Disregarding the May date they advertised, if they thought they had a reasonable shot at making money, they'd still be open. Obviously the snowstorm makes a difference, but what if temperatures had ended up a few degrees warmer?

regarding the weather - they announced their closing over a week ago because they were afraid were of getting wiped out by the weather. surprise - cold temps, 6" on the ground & still snowing followed by a sunny, warm weekend. probably a net gain of snow for the week.

and we're not talking cash cow here. maybe a reasonable expectation of a small profit or break even. plus you already spent all that money making the snow in the first place. just turn a lift already.

check out this post from someone whose ski area is gonna be open this weekend:

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29771&p=408117#p408117

 

[thorski]

Anyone know how much they spent on "The Beast" campaign?

 

[Black Phantom]

LOGICAL response



EMOTIONAL response

That's what's defining so much of this debate

You would love it up there. You could just sit around and drink beer telling everyone how well you ski. You'd really fit right in.

CT skiers....

 

[Riverskier]

LOGICAL response



EMOTIONAL response

That's what's defining so much of this debate

You continue to ignore the most important aspect of this conversation. They committed to staying open until May 2nd! I actually agree with much of what you are saying regarding economic viability of late season operations. However, since they did make a committment to May 2nd, economic viability has no place in this discusssion! I don't care if only one person shows up all weekend, the LOGICAL thing to do is to stay open and honor your committments. They should have considered economics when deciding a closing date, or not announced a closing date at all.

 

[Black Phantom]

LOGICAL response



EMOTIONAL response

That's what's defining so much of this debate

Apparently Jay Peak Management sees things differently.

As to our bottom line:benevolence ratio, trust me, we do this to make money both short and long term. It takes much less to keep going than people are willing to admit-regardless of the area-size-and you can make money if you're willing to turn a lift, price/package your ticket and lodging correctly then market the sh*t out of it. No brain surgeons up this way believe me.

 

[drjeff]

Apparently Jay Peak Management sees things differently.

Question for you.

Even in with today's seasonal numbers. Who has a larger market share of the skiing in the Northeast K or Jay???

Agree with them or not, they do know what they're doing and not every descision they make is popular, but they make them anyway.

heck, I'm lucky enough with where I own at Mount Snow to have owner's who are more like those at Jay, where they're very open with their customers and seem to "just get it" But with respect to K, even if you dig through the now multi-threads here on AZ about K this season, the majority of them show improvement and that Powdr is learning from what they did a few seasons ago after they bought the place.

They made the descision to close, likely that descision came down from the coporate HQ out West after they saw something, something that we "arm chair ski area operators" will likely never see, and all the while I'm sure knowing that the proverbial internet bitch-fest would ensue, they stuck with it. One tends to look a bit differently at things when they are the ones signing the checks as opposed to those that don't. I'm not saying that I agree with their descsion, I'm just saying that sometimes the descisions that one makes in business aren't the easy ones

 

[gmcunni]

They made the descision to close, likely that descision came down from the coporate HQ out West after they saw something, something that we "arm chair ski area operators" will likely never see, and all the while I'm sure knowing that the proverbial internet bitch-fest would ensue, they stuck with it. One tends to look a bit differently at things when they are the ones signing the checks as opposed to those that don't. I'm not saying that I agree with their descsion, I'm just saying that sometimes the descisions that one makes in business aren't the easy ones

DrJ, i get all that ^^ but really think they screwed up. two days before announcing the closing they were still advertising the May 2 date. They came out and announced they were closing due to weather forecast more than a week in advance. if they "saw something" why not be up front and honest with your customers and tell us that rather than blame the weather?

at the end of the day(season) their decision to close last weekend won't affect my decision on skiing at K. i'll probably get about the same number of days there next year that i got this year or last year.

 

[bobbutts]

One tends to look a bit differently at things when they are the ones signing the checks as opposed to those that don't. I'm not saying that I agree with their descsion, I'm just saying that sometimes the descisions that one makes in business aren't the easy ones

They're still:
1. Incompetent for advertising May 2
2. Looking really stupid for using the weather as an excuse.

Looks to me like a poorly run company where marketing and bean counters fail to work together. Looking stupid and incompetent is counter-productive to marketing and has a real (and difficult to calculate) cost for the company. Whatever the reasoning/cost was I find it hard to believe this decision will be a good one long term.

 

[Bubbartzky]

How is the shoveling going now bubba? The plows are out. :beer:
We live there too.

We've got about 4" - 5" as of this morning and still snowing. It's a different world from yesterday afternoon.

 

[RootDKJ]

Question for you.
They made the descision to close, likely that descision came down from the coporate HQ out West after they saw something, something that we "arm chair ski area operators" will likely never see, and all the while I'm sure knowing that the proverbial internet bitch-fest would ensue, they stuck with it.

I doubt the gave the internet message boards and social media a thought at all.

 

[gmcunni]

We've got about 4" - 5" as of this morning and still snowing. It's a different world from yesterday afternoon.

funny, yesterday on facebook they were CYA'ing themselves pointing out that it was hardly snowing. they linked to the golf course web cam showing green grass.

today it is different.

 

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Eric....get BACKon yer meds (*little man)

biggest failure at k is that xxxxxxx lives in k & hasnt been shot yet....what a douche bag!!

putz.....

 

[2knees]

DrJ, i get all that ^^ but really think they screwed up. two days before announcing the closing they were still advertising the May 2 date. They came out and announced they were closing due to weather forecast more than a week in advance. if they "saw something" why not be up front and honest with your customers and tell us that rather than blame the weather?

at the end of the day(season) their decision to close last weekend won't affect my decision on skiing at K. i'll probably get about the same number of days there next year that i got this year or last year.

exactly.

they pumped a May 2nd closing and sold spring passes with the caveat "weather and conditions permitting". Not financial conditions permitting. Well, the weather and conditions are permitting yet they are closed. there really is nothing left to argue. People can emotionally discuss the financial pitfalls to late season skiing but they arent looking at the core issue involved here.

and there is no emotion whatsoever from me. i probably wouldnt have been skiing this weekend as it turned out anyway. i think i'll just hang around drinking beer telling anyone who passes by what a great ct skier i am......:roll:

 

[Geoff]

exactly.

they pumped a May 2nd closing and sold spring passes with the caveat "weather and conditions permitting". Not financial conditions permitting. Well, the weather and conditions are permitting yet they are closed. there really is nothing left to argue. People can emotionally discuss the financial pitfalls to late season skiing but they arent looking at the core issue involved here.

and there is no emotion whatsoever from me. i probably wouldnt have been skiing this weekend as it turned out anyway. i think i'll just hang around drinking beer telling anyone who passes by what a great ct skier i am......:roll:

Small claims court is a special part of the Vermont Superior Court, and you are required to sue in the court in the county where you reside or the county where the defendant resides. Under Rule of Small Claims Procedure 2(b), the Court has the authority to change the location of the case to a place in which either party resides.

Only claims for monetary damages not exceeding $5,000.00 (i.e., claims for the price of goods sold, money lent, rent in arrears, etc.) may be filed in small claims court.

You can sue for up to $5,000.00 in small claims court. If you think someone owes you more than $5,000.00, you can sue in superior court, but the procedure in superior court is more complicated, time-consuming and expensive (you will probably need a lawyer). If your claim is for more than $5,000.00, but you decide to sue in small claims court anyway, you will give up your claim to any amount in excess of $5,000.00 (exclusive of court costs). Even so, it may well be worth your while to choose small claims court because it is less expensive and less complex than superior court.

A claim in excess of the $5,000.00 statutory limit may not be split into two or more claims.

The amount you sue for should include both the actual damage done to you or your property plus any additional money lost as a result of the actions of the party you are suing. For example, if someone ran into your car and did $200.00 worth of damage, and you had to rent a car for $40.00 while yours was being repaired, you should sue for $240.00. At the hearing, you must be able to prove all damages and expenses claimed in order to recover this total amount from the other party.

You will need to pay a filing fee of $50.00 for a claim $1000.00 or less or a fee of $75.00 for a claim over $1000.00.

So my drive from Killington to Jay Peak is 300 miles round trip. The IRS allows 50 cents per mile. When I submit my demand letter for a refund, it's going to include these costs.

 

[WJenness]

So my drive from Killington to Jay Peak is 300 miles round trip. The IRS allows 50 cents per mile. When I submit my demand letter for a refund, it's going to include these costs.

Hotel room at Jay should be considered too... Since you have a place at Killington and bought it there for (presumably) the long seasons...

-w

 

[threecy]

"I can't afford to live on two days a week pay. I need a full week's pay to feed my family. The big corporation I work for won't tell me whether or not they'll lay me off this week. I can't file for unemployment until they lay me off."

"But I want them to wait until the last possible minute to decide if they'll be open for two days in May. You can wait."