The "New" Gore-tex

[deadheadskier]

Interesting concept. Not that I find two layer Gore-tex shells to be bulky. Maybe this will help drive the cost of tech-ware down a little.

http://www.wired.com/2015/02/voormi-core-technology/

 

[Puck it]

The expiration of the gore tex patent in 1997 really did not bring anything down. Why would this?

 

[deadheadskier]

Maybe if people find the product better. Always good to have new competition.

 

[C-Rex]

Competition will help, but I think the big reason Gore-Tex hasn't come down much is simply brand recognition. People know Gore-Tex is the real deal, and trusting another brand can be sketchy. It's hard to tell if it'll have the same performance so people are still willing to pay for the Gore-Tex label. The ski industry, in general, isn't as picky about gear, but the people who really guide this technology - climbers- don't eff around. The reliability of their gear can be the difference between life and death. However, opinions will change over time as other products become proven.

This stuff is interesting though. I'd imagine having the membrane built into the fabric also makes it more durable. It's hard to imagine something more lightweight and flexible than Gore-Tex. My 2L [AK] jacket is amazing. Cheers to these guys for raising the bar.

 

[Cannonball]

Competition will help, but I think the big reason Gore-Tex hasn't come down much is simply brand recognition. People know Gore-Tex is the real deal, and trusting another brand can be sketchy. It's hard to tell if it'll have the same performance so people are still willing to pay for the Gore-Tex label. The ski industry, in general, isn't as picky about gear, but the people who really guide this technology - climbers- don't eff around. The reliability of their gear can be the difference between life and death. However, opinions will change over time as other products become proven.

This stuff is interesting though. I'd imagine having the membrane built into the fabric also makes it more durable. It's hard to imagine something more lightweight and flexible than Gore-Tex. My 2L [AK] jacket is amazing. Cheers to these guys for raising the bar.

Exactly this^. I've bought several pieces of expensive non Gore-tex gear in the past that claimed to have the same performance. They didn't. After losing a half day of prime riding at Snowbird because my pants failed to be waterproof and I was soaked and frozen, I swore not to ever deviate from Gore-tex again.

It would be great to see some other materials that perform just as well and create more options. But I'll need some real convincing to choose other than Gore-tex.

 

[C-Rex]

I have some CandyGrind gloves that are leather with a knock-off Gore-Tex liner, and they actually work quite well. But I definitely have seen it go your way too. With something like pants or a jacket, I'd have to be very sure I was getting a quality product. Glove aren't as big of a deal, especially with leather where I can just Nikwax the shit out of them to keep them dry. I think its Patagonia that has the H2NO Gore-Tex replicant. I've heard that one works pretty well.

 

[Puck it]

Most companies are now using non Gore tex products. Most use the Polartec version.

 

[prsboogie]

"Patagonia that has the H2NO Gore-Tex replicant. I've heard that one works pretty well."

It works great so far on my Snowshot shell, I have to see how it holds up over time. Only been out in really wet conditions 4-5 days so far.

 

[Bumpsis]

I was never too impressed with Goretex as a waterproof barrier, nor it being all that breathable. My ski pants are are Gortex and my bum will still get soggy if the chair is wet. I also have a Goretex rain jacket which in the rain, still results in my back being wet. It could be due to perspiration but either way, the claim of being waterproof/breathable is questionable at best. Even a brisk walk in the rain will result in me being almost just as wet as if I did not have the jacket on.

I found that without the proper coating of the Goretex garment , the water penetration - or at least, my own inside jacket wetness under outside wet condition increases drastically. So, when the coating wears off, the membrane all by itself doesn't do much. Where Goretex shines is in the wind protection - on that it really delivers.

 

[C-Rex]

I was never too impressed with Goretex as a waterproof barrier, nor it being all that breathable. My ski pants are are Gortex and my bum will still get soggy if the chair is wet. I also have a Goretex rain jacket which in the rain, still results in my back being wet. It could be due to perspiration but either way, the claim of being waterproof/breathable is questionable at best. Even a brisk walk in the rain will result in me being almost just as wet as if I did not have the jacket on.

I found that without the proper coating of the Goretex garment , the water penetration - or at least, my own inside jacket wetness under outside wet condition increases drastically. So, when the coating wears off, the membrane all by itself doesn't do much. Where Goretex shines is in the wind protection - on that it really delivers.

Gore-Tex is only waterproof when the moisture can bead up. If you smear it onto the fabric the surface tension breaks and the molecules can pass through the barrier. That's why you can still get wet when you sit in a wet spot or if you get super drenched. I'd love a pair of Gore-Tex pants with a non-breathable, fully waterproof patch on the seat and the knees/thighs. And a Gore-Tex jacket with fully waterproof patches on the shoulders. Those are really the only spots that I notice getting wet in really soggy conditions. Helly Hansen had a few jackets like that IRRC.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Interesting article here back in 2012 but still relative reguarding Gore tex dominance and competition.
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/Insane-in-the-Membrane.html
I guess I shouldn't be surprized at a huge company using strong arm tactics.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Competition will help, but I think the big reason Gore-Tex hasn't come down much is simply brand recognition..

That is certainly part of it but read the link I posted and see the other piece of the puzzle.

 

[Scruffy]

Cool stuff. Be nice to see really light single layer stuff for summer temps - backpacking and such.

 

[jrmagic]

Aside from the waterproof aspect one needs to consider durability as well. Gore tex Pro she'll is pretty bomber material. Will the new lighter and thinner fabric hold up as well when bushwhacking etc?

 

[C-Rex]

That is certainly part of it but read the link I posted and see the other piece of the puzzle.

Very interesting, and it makes a lot of sense looking back. If the patent expired in 1997, why haven't more companies gone to cheaper alternatives, or invented their own version. I guess we have an answer. Gore-Tex is basically using their popularity to bully companies into sticking with them. And since no alternative (to date, anyway) has been proven more waterproof and/or breathable it's hard to get people to switch away from what they know and love.

 

[SnowRock]

Interesting article here back in 2012 but still relative reguarding Gore tex dominance and competition.
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/Insane-in-the-Membrane.html
I guess I shouldn't be surprized at a huge company using strong arm tactics.

Definitely interesting... I have an old eVent Jacket from EMS that I used for a few years including a Whistler trip with lots of snow and some rain mid to lower elevations and it worked damn well. My current pants are Mountain Hardware using the DryQ eVent stuff and though I am one of those rare snowboarders that does not spend much time on my rear, I have found them to work really well over the past two seasons. My jacket is a patagonia with H2no and I notice no real performance difference versus my old gore tex shell. I do always splurge for gore tex mittens, but outside of those I don't know if its worth the premium anymore.