The NEW Magic Mountain

[slatham]

I think what many posts above are missing is that Magic needs Black because if they don’t need it they will fail. They cannot sustain on a long term basis on just Red and Green. And they need Black running this season - at some point - so there is no doubt it is online for 21/22. Then they need to focus on snowmaking to have both the terrain and uphill capacity to be an increasingly viable option to nearby resorts even in challenging weather regimes. So yes Magic doesn’t “need” Black this weekend or even MLK from your personal lift line perspective, especially given the Covid reduced skier visits, but they need it to continue the growth of the skier base and secure its long term future. IMHO.

FWIW I believe it will in fact come online this winter, pre-Presidents.

 

[cdskier]

i know you are relocating to the valley for the winter, but in a normal year just leave jersey super early Saturday morning, hit magic, and then sleep at your place Saturday night and ski sugarbush. its so worth your time. or just leave the valley super early Sunday morning and hit magic sunday. i do that all the time. i don't have a condo. but its pretty typical for me to leave 3 AM, drive to sugarbush, ski, drive to rutland to sleep, then drive to magic to ski. easy drive home from magic, under 4 hours if everything is perfect.

I'd have to leave around 4AM to make it to Magic when they open on a Saturday morning from NJ. No way I could last skiing after getting up that early and driving 4 hours. The Sunday thing is a far more viable option and what I would try to do in a normal year one day...

 

[JoeB-Z]

Any of you insiders know what is going on with Magic's quad install? A little bird told me that they began hanging chairs on the line but before they were even done the cable was waaaay overstretched. Is it true that they're going to have to cut the rope and re-splice? Who is on the hook for that major miscalculation? Hopefully Magic can hold their design engineer or installers responsible and get them to foot the bill?? In any event, it looks like my prediction was correct again this year. I was hoping I'd be wrong, but I think it;s pretty safe to say that chair won't spin until next season. Too bad, that chair would have been a major help during a covid affected season.

I need to eat crow with my contrary speculation. The rope is getting re-spliced this week.

 

[thetrailboss]

I need to eat crow with my contrary speculation. The rope is getting re-spliced this week.

It is still moving forward. I think I saw here that the main contractor died. One can't plan for that.

 

[ne_skier]

It is still moving forward. I think I saw here that the main contractor died. One can't plan for that.

I'm pretty sure the death of the main contractor occurred in 2018, and was the big wrench thrown into the Green Chair's installation. If another main contractor died for Black, that's one crazy curse.

 

[Newpylong]

Yes, that was on Green. Then Tim took over finishing that, and is now installing Black. I didn't think you could splice with chairs attached, apparently you can or it wouldn't be getting done so quick! I have only been involved with an empty haul rope.

Beyond getting Black complete, I am sure Matt and Geoff would love to have more water pumping capacity when the pond is redone. I think the current design is two fairly small and dissimilar boosters without a common manifold (each drives a separate upline) which is not very efficient especially for a hill that big.

Plenty of air with those two big Rotary Screws they got a few years back!

 

[Dickc]

Yes, that was on Green. Then Tim took over finishing that, and is now installing Black. I didn't think you could splice with chairs attached, apparently you can or it wouldn't be getting done so quick! I have only been involved with an empty haul rope.

I saw Sunapee replace the main bearing on the upper bullwheel of the triple one year by tying off the haul rope to the two top towers with cum-a-longs so as to get enough slack to pull it off the bullwheel. They only removed a half dozen chairs to do it too. With only half the chairs on the line, it should be fairly easy to grapple the haul rope at two farther apart towers, pull out enough slack with cum-a-longs and drop it to the ground to open, cut, and re-splice.

 

[thetrailboss]

Posted today on FB:

 

[slatham]

Well there you have it. Yes it needs a splice, yes you can do them with chairs on, and yes the splice will be done by MLK weekend. Hopefully final work and certification is soon to follow.

Lots of progress with snowmaking especially with 300 line back. If weather cooperates (looks good) next week could be "drain the pond" time and whale skiing on Talisman by MLK.

 

[ne_skier]

Doesn't look like they're gonna be getting much more snow in the near future, pretty dry outlook. Hopefully you're right and they can add to the east side and open the west if temps cooperate

 

[Hastur]

No Tali for MLK weekend?

 

[JoeB-Z]

Not even Showoff. I am so sick of the icy top of Carumba. They are trying. Frankly there is a different type of skier showing up than usual. They need some easier stuff. And not funnel everyone to a single trail.

 

[Hastur]

Not even Showoff. I am so sick of the icy top of Carumba. They are trying. Frankly there is a different type of skier showing up than usual. They need some easier stuff. And not funnel everyone to a single trail.

Right. from an operational standpoint it makes sense for them to push for lower magic carpet and focus on more easy paths down. MLK weekend will bring out alot beginners and they want that easy path down from Green

 

[Newpylong]

I hope after this season there are funds to still proceed with the pond reconstruction and additional pumping capacity. There is a long way to go before even getting 50% of that hill coverable in a bad winter like this. Sadly, bad winters seem to be more of the norm.

 

[slatham]

I hope after this season there are funds to still proceed with the pond reconstruction and additional pumping capacity. There is a long way to go before even getting 50% of that hill coverable in a bad winter like this. Sadly, bad winters seem to be more of the norm.

The pond is not the issue (though no argument that more water would be good). The issue is the pump for the 300 loop has been down since early December. It has been repaired and is back and installed but they haven't been able to get it fully running. The 300 loop is a separate loop that covers base area, terrain park, Hocus Pocus and Showoff. If this had been running, in my estimation, all of that terrain would be opened, and they would likely have hit Lower Carpet and probably Talisman before hitting Carumba. Such are the challenges running a ski area full stop, much less a small independent area with historical deferred maintain issues that are taking time to overcome (though great progress has been made).

Lower Carpet should be done, and given the 8 or so portable tower guns visible on the CAM they are done, and likely (hopefully) moving them to Talisman. Unfortunately, given temps this week and linear feet of snow required, they will need some help from Mother Nature to get Talisman open for MLK. Its not out of the question for sure, but a close call.

 

[ss20]

Unfortunately for Magic their location and low elevation will really hurt them this weekend. At this point the storm for the weekend looks like it'll be a net gain for the Green Mountain Spine and points west of that while hurting NH and Maine. Magic is too low and too far East. Good spot for coastals and southern sliders but not for storms that track inland.

 

[Newpylong]

The pond is not the issue (though no argument that more water would be good). The issue is the pump for the 300 loop has been down since early December. It has been repaired and is back and installed but they haven't been able to get it fully running. The 300 loop is a separate loop that covers base area, terrain park, Hocus Pocus and Showoff. If this had been running, in my estimation, all of that terrain would be opened, and they would likely have hit Lower Carpet and probably Talisman before hitting Carumba. Such are the challenges running a ski area full stop, much less a small independent area with historical deferred maintain issues that are taking time to overcome (though great progress has been made).

Lower Carpet should be done, and given the 8 or so portable tower guns visible on the CAM they are done, and likely (hopefully) moving them to Talisman. Unfortunately, given temps this week and linear feet of snow required, they will need some help from Mother Nature to get Talisman open for MLK. Its not out of the question for sure, but a close call.

I think the pond has likely not been an issue precisely because the second pump has not been operating. However, no need to take my word, just do the calculations. In operating a ski area I had to perform them often.

The target 50-60% of terrain covered by snowmaking is 80 acres. Using industry standard baselines and assumptions, that's around 30M gallons of water per snowmaking season at minimum. That's assuming average coverage and average recovery efforts of which has not been the case the past few seasons. The existing pond is what, ~4.5M gallons? That is at least 6 refills to wait for, at least 3 when the pond has been doubled in size. Time is money in snowmaking.

Now take the pumping capacity (I am assuming the 300 and 400 were designated after the horsepower of the pump drivers, so that would place them in the 1300 GPM range based on typical vertical turbine head height and discharge pressures), total snowmaking acreage, and opening snow depth and you assume a baseline temperature bin to allocate hours: it comes out to be about 500 snowmaking hours at current pumping capacity just to get base coverage on that terrain. That isn't too bad in actuality, but that is a perfect scenario assuming an average allocation of hours based on wet bulb, which we haven't had recently.

All of this said, they crush it with what they have, but I am sure they would like more to be able to cover Sorcerer, Witch to Black, etc in future to get to that 50-60%.

 

[slatham]

I think the pond has likely not been an issue precisely because the second pump has not been operating. However, no need to take my word, just do the calculations. In operating a ski area I had to perform them often.

The target 50-60% of terrain covered by snowmaking is 80 acres. Using industry standard baselines and assumptions, that's around 30M gallons of water per snowmaking season at minimum. That's assuming average coverage and average recovery efforts of which has not been the case the past few seasons. The existing pond is what, ~4.5M gallons? That is at least 6 refills to wait for, at least 3 when the pond has been doubled in size. Time is money in snowmaking.

Now take the pumping capacity (I am assuming the 300 and 400 were designated after the horsepower of the pump drivers, so that would place them in the 1300 GPM range based on typical vertical turbine head height and discharge pressures), total snowmaking acreage, and opening snow depth and you assume a baseline temperature bin to allocate hours: it comes out to be about 500 snowmaking hours at current pumping capacity just to get base coverage on that terrain. That isn't too bad in actuality, but that is a perfect scenario assuming an average allocation of hours based on wet bulb, which we haven't had recently.

All of this said, they crush it with what they have, but I am sure they would like more to be able to cover Sorcerer, Witch to Black, etc in future to get to that 50-60%.

Sounds like you know more about most of this than I do. But do recall they can now pump from Thomspsonburg Creek. Also I think the core minimum goal at this stage is to get more like 30% open - U/L Carpet, Medium, Trick, Showoff, Hocus Pocus, base/beginer/terrain park, Talisman. That to me makes then competitive. If the plan were to push for those trails AND Vertigo, Carumba, Sorcerer, Wizard, Witch/Blackline, by MLK, then yes I would highly agree pond enlargement is necessary (and they'd still need to pump from the creek).

 

[MG Skier]

Expanded snowmaking to the suggested areas would be huge! (Eventually when everything falls into place). I also understand that it costs $ to run pumps and compressors and man hours to make that all happen. I have seen the hydrants on Witch and wondered why they didn't blow that in. I was unaware of pipes on Sorcerer but that would be cool too...might need a Winch Cat for some of that...did the one Magic acquired last year work out?

 

[Newpylong]

Should be able to free groom Sorcerer top down, very carefully, especially because it's fairly narrow.

Status of "future" trails as I know them talking to a past snowmaker:

Lower Magic Carpet: back in the open column! Back online after 20 years of being out of commission due to pipe damage.

There are indeed pipes on Sorcerer and Matt spent a lot of time on repairs the past few years there as well. They are good to go. Maybe that will get the love soon over Talisman.

Witch to Black has pipes but my understanding is the water line above Hocus up into Witch needs substantial repairs. Maybe next on the off-season list. Pipe repairs are like wack a mole on lines that had substantial freeze damage or haven't been used in years. Tough to get equipment in up there too I imagine.

Mystery: also has pipe but my understanding is it has been scavenged for parts over the years. Likely also requires substantial effort.

Vertigo: I think there is a lateral coming over from LMC with a few hydrants on it which I was told wouldn't be too bad to get going again. Not sure if worth it?

I can't recall if Up Your Sleeve had pipe or not?

Hopefully Matt can fill in the blanks when he gets a chance (yeah right right now).