This would suck for ski day trippers and long commuters

[Puck it]

Some states are looking at this and now the feds. This would hurt local tourism.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/159397-obama-floats-plan-to-tax-cars-by-the-mile

 

[bvibert]

Don't like it. The gas tax essentially already does this, but to varying levels depending on the efficiency of the vehicle.

I also question how the technology side of it would work? Sensors in every car that would automatically be read at filling stations? How much is that going to cost to implement? What kind of 'sensor' would it be? To work on all makes, and old and new vehicles, alike it would seem to have to be some sort of GPS technology, which would be far from accurate and of course would upset a lot of people who don't want big brother watching them any more than they already are. If it's not some sort of GPS based system, then what? Older cars use a mechanical system from the transmission to the speedo, newer cars are all electronic, and in between you have some cars that use a mix of mechanical and electronic. Are we going to develop different sensor modules for all different types of cars and then let some mechanic hack up our wiring harnesses to install them? Then start forcing manufacturers to install the devices from the factory?

Doesn't seem all that well thought out to me... But what do I know??

 

[Glenn]

A silly idea IMHO. When will the craziness stop?

 

[mondeo]

Won't happen, but because of privacy concerns. It's ridiculous anyways, by the same logic they should tax bicycles as well.

 

[Puck it]

Won't happen, but because of privacy concerns. It's ridiculous anyways, by the same logic they should tax bicycles as well.

I think Oregon and Minneosta if I am not mistaken have small pilot programs runnings and they are only reporting miles driven not location.

 

[speden]

Off hand it seems like a problematic idea. It would punish high efficiency cars that currently pay a reduced gas tax. And people might find ways to cheat and disable the gps odometer between fill ups. Then there's the privacy problem since law enforcement would love to have tracking data on everyone if they could get it.

But with gas guzzlers heading the way of the dinosaurs, the gas tax probably isn't going to cut it in the future. Electric cars won't even be using gas.

When you try to think of the fairest way to tax people for roads, doing it by the mile makes some sense. The other way would be to use transponders like easy pass to make all major roads toll roads, but that would punish people that use those roads, and let other people pay nothing by using back roads all the time.

Or there could be a big car registration fee, but that would punish people that hardly ever drive while high mileage people would get a free ride.

If they do go this way in the future, I hope the tax will be based on both mileage and vehicle weight. The heavy trucks do a lot more road damage per mile than small cars. And skiers should get a tax break for every day spent on the hill.

 

[mondeo]

I think Oregon and Minneosta if I am not mistaken have small pilot programs runnings and they are only reporting miles driven not location.

I didn't say they were rational privacy concerns. Just that the mention of a government-owned GPS unit on your car would immediately bring out the privacy nuts.

 

[hammer]

Here we go again...a tax to set public policy that will just become an extra tax to enhance revenues...

 

[bvibert]

I didn't say they were rational privacy concerns. Just that the mention of a government-owned GPS unit on your car would immediately bring out the privacy nuts.

Exactly

 

[Riverskier]

This is ridiculous in so many ways that I could write a novel about it. I don't have the time or interest in doing so, but talk about screwing people who live in rural areas. There are MANY people in Maine who commute 30, and in some case many more, miles each way to minimum wage jobs, as that is the closest available employment.

 

[Warp Daddy]

This is total nonsense and will run into serious opposition

 

[deadheadskier]

This is ridiculous in so many ways that I could write a novel about it. I don't have the time or interest in doing so, but talk about screwing people who live in rural areas. There are MANY people in Maine who commute 30, and in some case many more, miles each way to minimum wage jobs, as that is the closest available employment.

don't ask for mondeo's sympathy on that one.

 

[speden]

Here we go again...a tax to set public policy that will just become an extra tax to enhance revenues...

Umm, maybe they are just looking for a way to pay for building and maintaining the roads? It costs money to build stuff. Do you have a better idea for funding the roads when cars are coming out that get 93 mpg (Chevy Volt)?

This is ridiculous in so many ways that I could write a novel about it. I don't have the time or interest in doing so, but talk about screwing people who live in rural areas. There are MANY people in Maine who commute 30, and in some case many more, miles each way to minimum wage jobs, as that is the closest available employment.

Aren't they already getting screwed by paying the gas tax? What's the difference if it's based on how many miles they drive instead of how many gallons they burn? I know people hate change, but I don't understand the outrage.

Driving home from Saddleback on route 17 the other day I was wishing gas taxes were higher in Maine so they could rebuild that horrible road. Someone forgot to put a foundation under it when they build that frost heaved thing. The state should pay me by the mile for how much wear and tear it put on my suspension.

 

[Puck it]

I would be fine with it if it replaces the gas tax, but you know it will be in addition to

 

[wa-loaf]

This is total nonsense and will run into serious opposition

Not to mention expensive, how much will all these GPS units and receivers costs. I bet the manufacturers of these things are behind it somewhere ...

Want to raise money for how much people drive. Tax gas ... the more you use the more you pay ... and if they are worried about electric vehicles I'm sure there is a much simpler way to measure the miles/ or electricity consumed ... Like just checking the odometer at the annual inspection! Duh! :where's the shoot me in the head smiley?:

 

[TheBEast]

This is ridiculous in so many ways that I could write a novel about it. I don't have the time or interest in doing so, but talk about screwing people who live in rural areas. There are MANY people in Maine who commute 30, and in some case many more, miles each way to minimum wage jobs, as that is the closest available employment.

And the senator from North Dakota introduced it no less!!

Just plain dumb. Privacy issues written all over this. Instead of taxes we need proposals to get people back to work and pay taxes!!

 

[Riverskier]

Aren't they already getting screwed by paying the gas tax? What's the difference if it's based on how many miles they drive instead of how many gallons they burn? I know people hate change, but I don't understand the outrage

Good point, in one sense, if it is actually going to replace the gas tax, but I suspect that Puck It is right and that it would be in addition to the gas tax. And even if it is going to replace the gas tax, you say "What is the difference", but why the hell would you replace one system with another system that is set to accomplish the same thing? Not to mention one that would clearly be extremely costly and difficult to implement.

 

[mondeo]

Umm, maybe they are just looking for a way to pay for building and maintaining the roads? It costs money to build stuff. Do you have a better idea for funding the roads when cars are coming out that get 93 mpg (Chevy Volt)?



Aren't they already getting screwed by paying the gas tax? What's the difference if it's based on how many miles they drive instead of how many gallons they burn? I know people hate change, but I don't understand the outrage.

Driving home from Saddleback on route 17 the other day I was wishing gas taxes were higher in Maine so they could rebuild that horrible road. Someone forgot to put a foundation under it when they build that frost heaved thing. The state should pay me by the mile for how much wear and tear it put on my suspension.

You're assuming that the gas tax goes to funding road maintenance. Bad assumption.

The problem with taxing by mileage is, well, there's a lot of them. By ton-mile, ok, now you're at least correcting for actual impact on roads. Again, if you're charging purely for mile and nothing else, there's no reason not to tax bicycles and pedestrians as well, other than it would accentuate how absurd it is. Also, the federal government only has authority over roadways as they relate to interstate commerce. Yes, Court decisions over the last 200+ years have destroyed the meaning of interstate commerce, but realistically they shouldn't touch anything other than US highways and Interstates. Any driving around town shouldn't be taxed by the federal gov't, and those roads shouldn't be funded by the federal gov't. Plus people don't drive exclusively on public roads. Of the 5 miles between my house and work, 1.5 miles are on company property. What right does the government have to tax me for travelling on roads they don't fund improvements on? It's like taxing me on the work I put into making dinner if that work were to be done in a restaurant and I was the chef.

Again, back to the commerce clause, the US government has the responsibility of regulating and promoting interstate commerce. You don't need a tax based on road use to do that. In fact, it's stupid to do so, because the end effect is a negative impact on that commerce it's trying to promote. No reason not to use the income taxes currently in place to do the same thing, other than it makes for a more centralized tax collection and makes people even more aware of how much tax they're actually paying.

 

[speden]

Not to mention expensive, how much will all these GPS units and receivers costs. I bet the manufacturers of these things are behind it somewhere ...

Want to raise money for how much people drive. Tax gas ... the more you use the more you pay ... and if they are worried about electric vehicles I'm sure there is a much simpler way to measure the miles/ or electricity consumed ... Like just checking the odometer at the annual inspection! Duh! :where's the shoot me in the head smiley?:

I think implementing it would be tough. They'd likely require all car manufacturers to begin installing some kind of odometer reading device starting with a certain model year. It would get read and logged in some kind of database tied to the vin number. It would need a lot of fraud prevention stuff to stop people from tapering with it, but that's probably doable. I could see something like that adding a few bucks to the price of a new car. For the cars on the road now I guess they'd have to come up with some kind of add on device you'd put on your dashboard or windshield, sort of like the toll transponders.

 

[speden]

Good point, in one sense, if it is actually going to replace the gas tax, but I suspect that Puck It is right and that it would be in addition to the gas tax. And even if it is going to replace the gas tax, you say "What is the difference", but why the hell would you replace one system with another system that is set to accomplish the same thing? Not to mention one that would clearly be extremely costly and difficult to implement.

I think the transportation departments are just looking ahead at the increased CAFE requirements and electric cars, etc. and realizing that five to ten years out, the gas tax revenues aren't going to bring in enough dough. Implementing something like this will take years, so they're starting to lay the groundwork now. The cost of the equipment needed is probably small relative to the amount of money it would bring in. Constructing and hiring people for toll booths is super expensive, but that doesn't stop them from building those.