Trees but not bumps - Technique?

[RISkier]

I've been looking at the mogul clinic thread. At least one person describes themself as a bump beginner but seems to do a lot of off piste/tree/backwoods skiing. I've ventured into easy, relatively open glades. But I wouldn't go into and kind of tight, reltively steep trees. I guess my take is that one needs to be solid in bumps, crud, powder, crusty slab, etc. before your ready to venture into any kind of tight glades. Can a poor bump skier ski in the back country, or even a lot of in-bounds glades, without exposing themself to high risk of injury. Just seems certain skills would be pre-requisites. Am I wrong?

 

[JD]

I hate and suck at bumps. I love tight trees and steep back country lines. Skiing natural snow well is important. Bumps are the most unnatural terrain I can think of outside of groomers. When stuff gets bumped, it's time to go ski somewhere else. Just my OPINION.

 

[lloyd braun]

You don't ski trees you ski the spaces between them.

 

[riverc0il]

In the East, unless you are skiing Northern New England tree lines that are getting regular refreshers, all but the most low angle glades tend to bump up pretty quickly after a big dump. Which is unfortunate and speaks to the problematic supply/demand issue tree/glade skiers are currently experiencing as good quantity non-bumped snow in the trees is hard to find only a day or two after a good storm.

When it comes to tree skiing, JD is dead on. When stuff gets bumped, time to look for other lines. I love bumps but if I want to ski bumps, I go find a bump line. If I want to ski trees, I want natural even snow or powder so I can focus on the experience and the trees instead of bumps. I love bumps but could do without them in the trees.

Problem is that your average glade is going to be bumped up 80% of the time. Better get proficient at handling bumps before you ski too many glades, especially more popular steep glades which will get bumped the fastest. Being able to ski in the woods was definitely one big reason I wanted to learn to ski bumps. I actually wanted the entire package: being able to ski anything, any where, any conditions. But I think that development includes bumps AND trees, but bumps are a really good place to start.

 

[2knees]

I hate and suck at bumps. I love tight trees and steep back country lines. Skiing natural snow well is important. Bumps are the most unnatural terrain I can think of outside of groomers. When stuff gets bumped, it's time to go ski somewhere else. Just my OPINION.

I cant ski deep powder but i manage ok in bumps. The one thing that just drives me nuts every year. I cant expierence what so many love. Steep tight trees with 2 feet of blower. Even when i've had the chance a couple of times after some of the april storms, i just know i'm gonna eat bark.

 

[MrMagic]

As steve said, a good place to master the New England glades are in fact the bumps. Most NE glades will form into a bumped run. While some of the forming of the bumps in the glades are semi preventable( on the ski areas, side in the form of stump grinding and earth moving ) most of it can not be helped ie, weather, amount of people. but regardless of the type of snow you can learn to ski the woods better, deep snow or bumps. I would recommend what has already been said, practice first outside of the woods before you venture in. blance, stance, hand placement, all vital to skiing the woods, bump or pow pow

 

[mattchuck2]

I love bumps but if I want to ski bumps, I go find a bump line. If I want to ski trees, I want natural even snow or powder so I can focus on the experience and the trees instead of bumps. I love bumps but could do without them in the trees.

Nah, even with the bumps, I'd rather ski trees than open trails. Trees are the best place to find natural snow which, try as they might, can never be replicated with a machine.

Of course, I prefer skiing bumps anyway, so maybe I'm not a good case study.

 

[riverc0il]

Don't get me wrong, I will take tree bumps over open slope bumps. But I will take natural non-bumped trees over bumped trees any day

 

[SkiDork]

Most undoubtedly the very best time to ski trees is anywhere from 1 - 5 days or so after a dump. In that window, they usually don't get too bumped up. Plus, you can usually find fresh if you really go looking for it.

 

[tcharron]

You don't ski trees you ski the spaces between them.

:idea:

OMG, I KNEW I was doing something wrong!!!

 

[dmc]

You don't ski trees you ski the spaces between them.

NICE... very zen....

 

[Greg]

I cant ski deep powder but i manage ok in bumps. The one thing that just drives me nuts every year. I cant expierence what so many love. Steep tight trees with 2 feet of blower. Even when i've had the chance a couple of times after some of the april storms, i just know i'm gonna eat bark.

I'm kinda with you on this. I just starting getting into skiing trees and feel way out of my element in there. Low-angle glades with reasonable tree spacing are fun, but steep and tight, no matter how much powder and I'm just holding on to not get injured. I'm much more comfortable in the bumps, but I like lightly gladed runs too. The on-map stuff at MRG (Paradise, Fall Line, Upper/Lower Glades, Lynx) is great.

 

[SkiDork]

I'm kinda with you on this. I just starting getting into skiing trees and feel way out of my element in there. Low-angle glades with reasonable tree spacing are fun, but steep and tight, no matter how much powder and I'm just holding on to not get injured. I'm much more comfortable in the bumps, but I like lightly gladed runs too. The on-map stuff at MRG (Paradise, Fall Line, Upper/Lower Glades, Lynx) is great.

Greg, the fact that you're getting into bumps is really great, but you should definitely push yourself more to get into the trees, especially on the east coast. Get yourself a pair of fat skis, and jump in there. While the regular folk are scraping along in the cut trails, the tree folk are in there enjoying fresh pow right next to them.

I used to hate trees until I tried some fat skis (K2 Apache Chiefs at first, now I've got a pair of Phantom Crystal Ships). Now I love them

 

[nhski]

I don't consider myself much of a bump skier. I can get down a bump run, but don't look good doing it. I love skiing the trees and think i can rip in there pretty well.

 

[JD]

One thing about tight steep lines is that there kind of needs to be fresh snow. The tightest, steepest lines are too tight to even throw it sideways, there has to be enough fresh to give you some resistance or the ability to porpoise down into the snow to control your speed. Matching the right pitch for the snow conditions is important when you drop into tight trees. The idead being that you keep your boardz pointed pretty fall line, stay balanced, and make subtle turns. 6 inches of new snow means heading for the low angle stuff and trying to just float along. 2 feet of POW means heading for the steep, tight stuff where there really is onle enough room for 1 or 2 folks to rip it properly before it just gets too fast and the side slipping or massive speed checking is required. Knowing these lines is crucial too. sometimes you have to straight line blind turns or horizon lines, but if you know it "opens up just around the corner", you will feel more comfortable letting them run for a bit. I suggest scouting this type of thing when it's all skied out. Side slip down it when it's played so you know where the turns are when it's good. It's really hard to ski tight trees well when they are all skiied out because it's so damn fast on scraped down hard pack. That's why when it's bumped ot skied off, it's more fun to go for a walk and find some virgine snow. $.02

 

[jack97]

Just seems certain skills would be pre-requisites.

IMO, there are a lot of skills that you can take from the bumps into the trees. Again, my opinion only, the skills you need to get better at bumping is to learn how to ski with the feet under the hips in both the lateral direction and the fore/aft direction. The ankle flex, knee flex, hip position, and weight transfer is applied differently when you want to make quick short turns versus doing a carves. Dan’s book point this out clearly; in a narrow corridor, you don’t have the space nor time to lay out carved turns, that why bumpers turn the way they turn. Same things apply in the trees, especially in those tight spots.

Another opinion, past ten years with carve oriented shaped skis, skiers are using different skills, they let the ski make the turns. Skis with less sidecut, the skiers apply more input into making the skis turns.

 

[Greg]

One thing about tight steep lines is that there kind of needs to be fresh snow. The tightest, steepest lines are too tight to even throw it sideways, there has to be enough fresh to give you some resistance or the ability to porpoise down into the snow to control your speed. Matching the right pitch for the snow conditions is important when you drop into tight trees. The idead being that you keep your boardz pointed pretty fall line, stay balanced, and make subtle turns. 6 inches of new snow means heading for the low angle stuff and trying to just float along. 2 feet of POW means heading for the steep, tight stuff where there really is onle enough room for 1 or 2 folks to rip it properly before it just gets too fast and the side slipping or massive speed checking is required. Knowing these lines is crucial too. sometimes you have to straight line blind turns or horizon lines, but if you know it "opens up just around the corner", you will feel more comfortable letting them run for a bit. I suggest scouting this type of thing when it's all skied out. Side slip down it when it's played so you know where the turns are when it's good. It's really hard to ski tight trees well when they are all skiied out because it's so damn fast on scraped down hard pack. That's why when it's bumped ot skied off, it's more fun to go for a walk and find some virgine snow. $.02

IMO, there are a lot of skills that you can take from the bumps into the trees. Again, my opinion only, the skills you need to get better at bumping is to learn how to ski with the feet under the hips in both the lateral direction and the fore/aft direction. The ankle flex, knee flex, hip position, and weight transfer is applied differently when you want to make quick short turns versus doing a carves. Dan’s book point this out clearly; in a narrow corridor, you don’t have the space nor time to lay out carved turns, that why bumpers turn the way they turn. Same things apply in the trees, especially in those tight spots.

Another opinion, past ten years with carve oriented shaped skis, skiers are using different skills, they let the ski make the turns. Skis with less sidecut, the skiers apply more input into making the skis turns.

Interesting back to back posts. JD seems to strive for areas where turning is minimal, while jack points out that being a quick turner is beneficial in the trees. I prefer to turn a lot in and out of the bumps. Perhaps this is why I enjoy lightly wooded terrain vs. tight woods. I want to turn when I want to turn, usually rhythmically, and not necessarily because I'm about to smack a tree every other turn. I guess this is why lightly wooded "glades" or trails (Lynx at MRG; Twilight Zone at Magic; or East Glades at the Beast for example) appeal to me. I can still get the feeling of skiing in the woods, but can for the most part ski in a rhythmic pattern with some random line corrections here and there to avoid trees or tree islands, or occasionally pop off some terrain feature or something. Different stokes for different folks...

 

[SkiDork]

One thing about tight steep lines is that there kind of needs to be fresh snow. The tightest, steepest lines are too tight to even throw it sideways, there has to be enough fresh to give you some resistance or the ability to porpoise down into the snow to control your speed. Matching the right pitch for the snow conditions is important when you drop into tight trees. The idead being that you keep your boardz pointed pretty fall line, stay balanced, and make subtle turns. 6 inches of new snow means heading for the low angle stuff and trying to just float along. 2 feet of POW means heading for the steep, tight stuff where there really is onle enough room for 1 or 2 folks to rip it properly before it just gets too fast and the side slipping or massive speed checking is required. Knowing these lines is crucial too. sometimes you have to straight line blind turns or horizon lines, but if you know it "opens up just around the corner", you will feel more comfortable letting them run for a bit. I suggest scouting this type of thing when it's all skied out. Side slip down it when it's played so you know where the turns are when it's good. It's really hard to ski tight trees well when they are all skiied out because it's so damn fast on scraped down hard pack. That's why when it's bumped ot skied off, it's more fun to go for a walk and find some virgine snow. $.02

Thats awesome. Definitely sums it up. Thankx

 

[JimG.]

Thats awesome. Definitely sums it up. Thankx

Agreed...and it's exactly how I approach tree sking.

I especially agree with the comments about knowing your line. I think I've spent the most time in trees at MRG and I can tell you there are lines I ski now without thinking that scared me into tentativeness the first time in.

 

[2knees]

I guess what i'm talking about is tight trees with bottomless powder. No base to sink into. Thats where i get thrown. Skiing trees is not the problem, its not having the technique to truly ski powder. And again, i'm referring to deep powder where you skis arent sinking onto the pre-existing base.