Vail Resorts is buying Peak Resorts.

[Domeskier]

In an unrelated note, I'm beginning to wonder which sample is bad, my office, or this place.

If you have a house/condo out there where you can store your gear and work remotely when you miss the flight back, weekends in Utah for someone in NYC could be doable (and maybe preferable to driving to NVT). If you have to lug your gear back and forth and herd a bunch of kids around, I think the returns start to diminish quickly. There is no way I could do that every weekend from November to April they way folks here head up to NVT. If you're a casual skier who's flying out once a month or so, it's probably worth it even without the real estate.

 

[Bosco DaSkia]

Y'all are missing it. the basic business model is that of your average health club. Sell lots of passes to people who aren't going to use them. you don't sell an actual product, you sell the promise of an actual product priced higher than the average user would actually use. just cause you use your pass a lot doesn't mean the average skier does. They bank on that.

 

[thebigo]

My family has four peak passes, we live about half way between crotched and wildcat. The girls do a seasonal program at the crotch, we ski wildcat when they dont have team. Last year we roughly split our 76 days between crotch, cat and k. We bought the k spring passes to cover april vacation week, during that week we rented a condo on mountain and during may I bought countless beers at the u-bars. Next year we are planning to skip the k passes and instead go to Breckenridge for the week. I suspect my family is a perfect example of mtns strategy, absorb that marginal dollar from skiing familes located near former skis properties.

 

[thetrailboss]

Y'all are missing it. the basic business model is that of your average health club. Sell lots of passes to people who aren't going to use them. you don't sell an actual product, you sell the promise of an actual product priced higher than the average user would actually use. just cause you use your pass a lot doesn't mean the average skier does. They bank on that.

Bingo. And they want you to walk around your office bragging about how you have a pass to Vail (or Stowe now).


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[EPB]

If you have a house/condo out there where you can store your gear and work remotely when you miss the flight back, weekends in Utah for someone in NYC could be doable (and maybe preferable to driving to NVT). If you have to lug your gear back and forth and herd a bunch of kids around, I think the returns start to diminish quickly. There is no way I could do that every weekend from November to April they way folks here head up to NVT. If you're a casual skier who's flying out once a month or so, it's probably worth it even without the real estate.

After some more thought, you guys are missing that your average greater NYC area driver is absolutely abysmal at driving in the snow. Let's not forget how many don't want to drive all the way back from VT in a snow storm. I spent my first winter in NJ last year after living in snowier climates my whole life and could not believe how 3 inches of snow shuts the place down. It's not just the plowing capability alone - the average driver has no idea what they're doing in the snow.

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[cdskier]

After some more thought, you guys are missing that your average greater NYC area driver is absolutely abysmal at driving in the snow. Let's not forget how many don't want to drive all the way back from VT in a snow storm. I spent my first winter in NJ last year after living in snowier climates my whole life and could not believe how 3 inches of snow shuts the place down. It's not just the plowing capability alone - the average driver has no idea what they're doing in the snow.

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I’m not sure the average NJ driver represents the type of person that goes to VT on a regular basis though. Yes, NJ drivers suck in the snow. Most have no idea what snow tires even are. People look at me like I have two heads when I say I switched my tires for the winter.


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[ss20]

$15M over 2 years split between 17 resorts is sort of weak in all honesty. Obviously it won’t be distributed equally, but still that number doesn’t impress me without any details on what they have in mind.


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My thoughts exactly. $15m will buy 2 new detachable lifts. Spread over 17 resorts that's chump change at each.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Let's say you wake up at 4:00 on Saturday morning in Newark and have the option to go to the west (let's say Utah) or let's say Killington. You can head to the airport and be on a flight, on the ground, in a car, and skiing Snowbird at 9:30. Good luck being at Killington by 9:30. South of NYC it's definitely quicker to fly west and, depending on where you're going, easier.

Let's say we ignore the fact that all the math in your post is completely bogus & totally doesn't work as several others have already pointed out, you would still be the loser getting up at "4AM on a Saturday morning" = PASS and NO thank you.

I spent my first winter in NJ last year after living in snowier climates my whole life and could not believe how 3 inches of snow shuts the place down. It's not just the plowing capability

I will play David Copperfield magician and guarantee something, you live near the city.

I wont wait for you to confirm this, I know it's true. So how did I pull off this magic trick?

Because once you get into the country in New Jersey, pretty much most people have snow tires on their SUV or 4WD pick-up (because everyone drives either an SUV or a 4WD pick-up), and the winter roads in New Jersey are taken care of about 10,000% better than State of Vermont.

Which I have never understood. Why is Vermont so terrible about taking care of snow on the roads, when you get snow on the roads so often? Compare that to the giant 3 foot overnight blizzard here in Jersey a few years ago, when by 10am the next morning the entire highway was literally blacktop and easily driveable. God only knows, I bitch & complain about almost everything the government does here in New Jersey, but the one thing I wont complain about is the quality of winter roads.

 

[deadheadskier]

Answer: snow removal budget and the need to use it is a fraction as often in NJ as is in VT. I'll also throw out that NJ has far more commerce to support on it's roads, so the demand for better service is higher.

VT has far less money to spend per mile of road that needs attention than NJ. . Far fewer people, businesses and homes to tax to support the cost of snow removal.

You should head up to Downeast Maine some time. They basically only actively plow rte 1 during storms. Every other state highway is basically left alone until the storm ends. I remember driving rte 191 from Machias to Calais last winter in 10" of snow. It's the most direct route between what are the two largest towns in that part of the state. I went the entire 45 miles without seeing a single plow. I was visiting the hospital in Calais. They were transferring patients via helicopter to Bangor because rte 9, the main road from Calias over was impassable for ambulances due to no plowing.

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[Newpylong]

VT uses reduced (ie none in many places) salt on their roads.

 

[deadheadskier]

That too. And salt is much less effective at colder temps.

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[cdskier]

This is where i disagree with BG. I think NJ does a terrible job at snow removal meanwhile I’ve never had any issues in VT on the roads I use. I wish I had the picture my dad sent me a year or two ago of how bad I78 was the day after a major storm here in NJ. Add in the fact that no one in NJ knows how to drive if even a flake falls and it is a disaster.


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[mister moose]

Adding to how VT treats their roads,
Interstates: plowed constantly but with greater interval than other states during snowstorms. Less salt, including less pre-emptive salt before the storm. Ice storms are particularly dangerous when the ice is the first part of the storm, I have seen where rain turns to freezing rain with zero treatment and black ice forms with multi car accidents. Then if you slide off the road, you get a ticket for driving too fast for conditions. Passing lane can have several inches on it.
State arterial roads: Almost as good as Interstates, might collect an inch between plowings.
State Routes (Rte 100 Ludlow to Bridgewater) No plowing for hours, 8 inches can be on the road.
Local town roads: Main roads vary, smaller residential roads very infrequent plowing to no plowing until after storm.

 

[EPB]

Commerce is a fair point. NJ drivers out my way still seem to have more trouble than in greater Boston. It doesn't snow much here - it's an experience issue as much as anything.

Regarding downeast Maine, if the greater NYC winters were as harsh as downeast, two things would almost certainly be true:
1) more money would go to snow removal, etc. (100% agree)
2) drivers would have much more experience driving in the snow and be more comfortable driving to and from VT in a storm.

I'm 30-35 miles from NYC. I'm not saying that when I go up 87 that people aren't almost exclusively adept and prepared to handle the elements. Rather, I'm saying the incremental skier that Vail wants to pick up from the merger are not necessarily as comfortable as posters here are. Many might take a flight with a delay over a drive back from Stowe in a storm.

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[thetrailboss]

I once flew from Newark to Boston to ski Wachusetts. It was totally worth it.

:lol:

 

[BenedictGomez]

This is where i disagree with BG. I think NJ does a terrible job at snow removal meanwhile I’ve never had any issues in VT on the roads I use.

I live in a very wealthy part of the state, so if money is the issue as DHS suggests, that might be why the roads are much better here. As I said before, it's worse towards the city (or course, there are also more roads there).

As for VT though, it's bad. You're just used to the tourist roads up there, like 89, 91, etc..., which they do work on. But if you live up there and have to drive in the non-tourist dollar areas, it can be an adventure like I've never encountered in New Jersey, and Mister Moose's last post does a great job explaining it better than I could.

 

[cdskier]

I live in a very wealthy part of the state, so if money is the issue as DHS suggests, that might be why the roads are much better here. As I said before, it's worse towards the city (or course, there are also more roads there).

As for VT though, it's bad. You're just used to the tourist roads up there, like 89, 91, etc..., which they do work on. But if you live up there and have to drive in the non-tourist dollar areas, it can be an adventure like I've never encountered in New Jersey, and Mister Moose's last post does a great job explaining it better than I could.

Actually I’m never on 89/91 in VT in the winter. 4/22a/73/100 etc are my typical primary roads. And never had any issues anywhere in the mad river valley area where I spend most of my time up there. Other areas could certainly be problematic though.

As for NJ I’m certainly close to the city so this area may just suck compared to your area. My experience is based on the Bergen/Passaic county area plus 78 east of 287 (I work in Bridgewater).

The absolute best roads ever though from my experience were in Rochester, NY where I lived for 3 winters during college. My junior year we had lake effect snow nearly every day that winter and I lived off campus. Roads were fantastic from a snow clearing perspective.


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[drjeff]

Up at Mount Snow right now (and have been since Thursday night). Talked to a bunch of employee friends, all year round staff. The consensus is that everyone agrees that change can seem scary at first. Just about everyone was looking forward to Vail Resorts coming in. Everyone is curious to see what will happen with the new ownership.

Also on a side note, between when I was up here last weekend and this weekend, active demolition of the Mountain Ops building that caught fire last month began. Almost looks like they're going to try and salvage the side that was least effected by the fire where the snowcat and heavy equipment maintenance shop was located. Time will tell.

Also, in a couple of the small houses adjacent to the Carinthia parking lot that Mount Snow owns, there's some shiny new signs identifying them as home of the Snowmaking Department and home of the Mountain Ops Department. Guess the plan for this coming season atleast for their replacement office space post fire has been figured out.

Other than that it seems like a "normal" Summer up here. It's quiet, people are getting out and enjoying hiking, biking, boating, paddle boarding, kayaking, etc in the Green Mountains with what looks like a typical Summer maintenance routine going on on the mountain and in the base lodges

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[x10003q]

Let's say you wake up at 4:00 on Saturday morning in Newark and have the option to go to the west (let's say Utah) or let's say Killington. You can head to the airport and be on a flight, on the ground, in a car, and skiing Snowbird at 9:30. Good luck being at Killington by 9:30. South of NYC it's definitely quicker to fly west and, depending on where you're going, easier.

Getting to Snowbird in that time frame is pure fantasy. The only way you could get to Snowbird from NJ in that time frame is if you are dropped off at the steps of private jet on the runway at Teterboro or Morristown.

Also, Newark Airport to Killington is about 4.5 hours, especially leaving at 4am. If you are 1/2 hour south of Newark Airport, you are still only 5 hours to Killington or 9am arrival.

 

[thetrailboss]

Up at Mount Snow right now (and have been since Thursday night). Talked to a bunch of employee friends, all year round staff. The consensus is that everyone agrees that change can seem scary at first. Just about everyone was looking forward to Vail Resorts coming in. Everyone is curious to see what will happen with the new ownership.

Also on a side note, between when I was up here last weekend and this weekend, active demolition of the Mountain Ops building that caught fire last month began. Almost looks like they're going to try and salvage the side that was least effected by the fire where the snowcat and heavy equipment maintenance shop was located. Time will tell.

Also, in a couple of the small houses adjacent to the Carinthia parking lot that Mount Snow owns, there's some shiny new signs identifying them as home of the Snowmaking Department and home of the Mountain Ops Department. Guess the plan for this coming season atleast for their replacement office space post fire has been figured out.

Other than that it seems like a "normal" Summer up here. It's quiet, people are getting out and enjoying hiking, biking, boating, paddle boarding, kayaking, etc in the Green Mountains with what looks like a typical Summer maintenance routine going on on the mountain and in the base lodges

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I would imagine that Snow will make out just fine under Vail. Sure, there will be some consolidation and some jobs will be eliminated, but Vail has said in their podcast that they like to come in and work with what they have on the ground.