VERY important ski boot question!

[tfanmom]

My daughter is an expert skier with a perplexing and troubling problem. She finds herself suffering from frost nip on her toes every time she goes skiing when the temperature is below freezing. She can only stay out for about 1 1/2 hours max before facing the desperate need to go in, take off her boots, and have her feet warmed by her husband's warm hands. Invariably her toes are white! and numb, then the tingling sets in and gradually the color returns. She wants to stay out longer, experience some back country adventures, perhaps do some part-time ski instructing and simply be able to ski away from close proximity to some warming facility for more than an hour.
She has tried hi tech socks, anti-perspirant all over her feet (tip from a ski patroler) and boot heaters. The latter helped somewhat, but when she purchased her latest pair of boots in 2001, the tightness of the boots prohibited the use of the heaters she had then. She needs the tight boots for control at the speeds and in the style with which she skis, but there must be a boot out there that can provide the control as well as the warmth she needs. She has been considering foam injected boots, but she is reluctant to take that step until she has heard or been convinced that they will be warmer. Can anyone help??? Is there a warmer boot and what else can she try? She is only 26 and much too young to quit skiing now PLUS she loves to ski!

 

[RISkier]

No specific suggestions. My wife has a problem with cold toes, she uses the chemical toe warmers when it's cold, they seem to do the trick. That said, if your daughter's boots are really snug she might not be able to get them into the boot either, and they do need air, so... There are also neoprene warmers that go on the outside of the boot; I have no first hand experience with those but they might be worth a try. I'd speculate she needs a tad more space in the boots. If the boots fit well otherwise, a bootfitter could open up the toes a tad and that shouldn't effect control much if at all. I'd be curious if she feels any real pressure points that could restrict blood floe. I might also suggest trying some ultra thin ski socks. Good luck.

 

[bvibert]

She should definately be un-buckling the boots when she gets to the bottom for the chair ride up. If the boots are that snug then they are limiting the blood flow to her feet. That helps me alot with my boots. The boot glove (neoprene covers for the outside) also help, I have them for when it really gets cold. The only problem with those is its hard to un-buckle the lower buckles.

BTW, welcome to the forums!

 

[powers]

One solution that works but is not cheap, is custom foam liners. The trick in this case is to tape over the blood vessels with 1/4"-3/8" foam insulating tape for doors. It leaves channels in the foam liner to allow the vessels to expand without screwing up the fit. Foam liners will help the fit anyway but this is a good trick to help cold feet. And make sure that if you do get them foamed, its done by someone that knows what they are doing, bad foam is worse than a bad stock liner and all you can do is throw it a way and start over. Good luck.

 

[SAB]

There is another possibility. There is something called "Raynaud's Syndrome" or "Raynaud's phenomenon" where when exposed to the cold, the digits react by shutting down the circulation - which results in white fingers and/or toes and, obviously, cold fingers and/or toes. Here is a brief explanation by A.C. Adee published in the American Family Physician:

Raynaud's phenomenon is characterized by vasospasm of the digits, most commonly the fingers, although the toes, ears, nose and even the tip of the tongue may be involved. The disorder is commonly precipitated by exposure to cold, although vasoconstrictive drugs and emotional distress may be triggers. Patients with Raynaud's phenomenon should avoid these triggers. Behavioral therapies, including stress management, relaxation training and biofeedback, are effective in some patients. When lifestyle changes fail to control symptoms, medications may be prescribed to correct various underlying pathophysiologic mechanisms. Medications that may be effective include calcium channel blockers, angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors, alpha- adrenergic blockers, pentoxifylline, dipyridamole and low-dose acetylsalicylic acid.

If this is the case, boot adjustments and the other suggestions listed here aren't likely to make much of a difference. A friend of mine has this problem and it is a constant struggle for him to keep his feet warm. Good boots, boot gloves etc. help, but don't fully solve the problem.

This may not be the situation for your daughter, but it would be worth doing an internet search to see if she fits the profile. If so, maybe a visit to a doctor could be in order.

Good luck,
SAB

 

[jimme]

Very interesting point SAB has. Seems unusual that her toes get that cold so quickly. I had frostbite on my toes and the cold does not seem to affect me as badly as it does your daughter. I use the Hottronics 3.5 Custom footwarmers and so far they are great. Last night skiing it was 15 degrees and my toes were warm as toast.

You mention foot warmers, and it sounds like she has the "standard" footwarmer that is built into a footbed. Since I have custom footbeds, I bought the "custom" type foot warmer. This model allows you to put the foot warmer into whatever foot bed you are using. Also, it seems that you might have nothing to loose by trying to trim the warmer she has to fit the boot.

Jimme

Just had this thought. What about those "space blankets"? Maybe she could cut one so she could wrap a single layer around her socks? (May be a little extreme, but I though I'd mention it.)

 

[tfanmom]

Thanks!

:beer:
There are certainly some helpful and intelligent people on this board, and I really appreciate all of the replies to my plea for help in solving my daughter's problem with cold toes. I look forward to hearing what others have to say, and I extend my sincere thanks to all who have responded so far. Kudos to you all!

 

[JimG.]

The tightness of the boots she is skiing may be a problem...does she have a custom fitted footbed? If not, this would help alot because she would not have to buckle her boots so tightly that they cut her circulation off. She would be able to keep her buckles looser yet have the control in her turns and feel for the snow she needs.

Blowing the boots out a bit around the toes might help. Another suggestion would be to get thermoform liners. I have these in my current boots and they are the warmest boots I have ever owned. For example, on this past Monday it was brutally cold yet I skied all day without any coldness and my feet were actually steaming when I removed my boots at the end of the day.

In any case, a professional bootfitter should be able to help her out a bit if it is related to the boot. Other simple fixes are things like avoiding vasoconstrictors like caffeine or cigarettes while skiing. These substances constrict blood flow to the extremities which will make them cold.

 

[tfanmom]

thermofoam liners?

Hi Jim..
Could you tell me more about the thermofoam liners that you use. Who makes them? Where did you get them? Do they simply insert into your boot shell? Thanks for more info

 

[JimG.]

My boots are alpine touring boots, a little different from regular alpine boots; these boots came with the thermoform liners as the extra snug fit was essential for good performance. However, thermoform liners can be purchased for pretty much any boot out there. They are not cheap although I admit I don't know exactly what they cost.

These are not foam liners, but rather liners with a material in them that can be heated (usually to about 120 degrees or so) and then molded around the subject foot. I have custom footbeds too and these were manufactured before fitting the liners, then the footbed and heated liners were placed in the boot shells and I put them on. After 20 minutes or so, the molding process is complete.

The material is resilient enough to be refitted 4-6 times before it loses its' integrity, a good thing since my original fitting was without toe spacers and my toes complained loudly first day out. We refitted the boots with the spacers and I've been go to go since.

I highly recommend finding an expert bootfitter, preferably one with podiatric skills, to look at your daughter's feet and make recommendations. I ski alot at Hunter Mountain in NY and my bootfitter, Keith Holmquist from The Pro has been making my boots fit like gloves for 15 years. If the boots fit well, I can ski on 2x4's and feel great.