Views wanted on marriage/monogamy/infidelity

[thetrailboss]

I still think that you are giving the cheater a lot more credit than you should....if the person was not happy and tried to communicate that as you suggest, there is the break-up option rather than just going to cheating.

I think that part of the difference of opinion is generational. Older generations I know value interdependence and solidarity. Many people in my generation, and younger, think about "what's in it for me?" I am not a "me" person. My ex was....it was about her and her alone.

 

[OldsnowboarderME]

I said cheating was wrong. Maybe it didn't come across right, but if someone's in a relationship and they're unhappy and make every effort to try and get through that with their partner and their partner isn't willing to put the same effort back; then I think its human for that persons mind/heart to wander. The right thing to do would be to break up. Unfortunately, some people aren't mature enough to leave first before seeking the affection of another person.

And I completely disagree with the 'once a cheater or always a cheater' statement. I'm great friends with a girl who cheated on me. It took me three years to forgive her, but eventually I did. She's been completely committed to her husband for six years and is a great wife whom I know would never cheat on him. Why? Because it's the right relationship for her.....ours wasn't. What she did to me was very wrong, but we really shouldn't have been together in the first place.

Look divorces suck, but not all of them are bad. 90% of the people I've known that have gotten a divorce, I say to myself...saw that one coming. There are far too many people who put square pegs in round holes and get married to the wrong person for the wrong reason. Every relationship has that 'honeymoon' stage where for the first three to six months everything seems perfect when in reality people's minds are clouded by lust. Because that stage happens, some people think that they can talk their way back to that point, but the reality is once the lust settles, there's no real compatability there.

No if your unhappy in a relationship just leave .. so to wander is like trying to find a better deal before leaving. I told my ex it wasn't so much her leaving it was about how she went about it. She might have been unhappy but I had no opportunity to know about it or try to do something about it. My answer just might have been leave then if that is what will make you happy.. But I was not part of the process to end the relationship.

 

[Moe Ghoul]

This thread proves that like most things in life there is risk, especially in relationships. What about serial marriage types? Why is a person sad or unhappy? Is it the relationship? Boredom? horniness? Immaturity? I don't envy anyone out there dating these days. If you can find love, compatibility, loyalty, and civility, it's a keeper in my book.

 

[Hawkshot99]

Yeah but some people stay in bad marriages..if a marriage is bad it should end in Divorce. My Aunt stayed with my uncle for 20 years and the last 10-15 were bad but they stayed together for the sake of the kids..and then when the youngest went to college..they divorced and now they're both in really good loving marriages. Both of my parents were in bad marriages before they met each other when they were in their early 20s..but it's a good thing they met each other back in 78 or I wouldn't be here..

Agree with you. But you cut that part out of my statement. If it is not something that is truelly going to last forever, it should not happen.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

As for dealing with cheaters...fakes..liars..and straight up trick hoe--chickenheaded beezies..some people are very forgiving and see cheating as a one time thing...but most people..myself included..hold a grudge..

The girl I had my longest realtionship with never cheated on me(as far as I know)..and I never cheated on her...but near the end she didn't treat me well..and became psycho so that was it. I tried to give her another shot last summer but after two dates and several phone conversations..we both knew it wouldn't work..We both had grudges from years back...

I described our relationship like this...Imagine you have a great cake..pristine..and nice..that the way things normally were..but then things got bad and it was like somebody took a dump on the cake..sure you can push the poop off the cake but it's still going to have poopy residue..I even explained this to her last summer and she laughed hysterically but I always get girls for being funny...and for being a serious skier..lol

 

[thetrailboss]

Like someone taking a dump on a cake???

Whoa....

:lol:

 

[deadheadskier]

I still think that you are giving the cheater a lot more credit than you should....if the person was not happy and tried to communicate that as you suggest, there is the break-up option rather than just going to cheating.

I think that part of the difference of opinion is generational. Older generations I know value interdependence and solidarity. Many people in my generation, and younger, think about "what's in it for me?" I am not a "me" person. My ex was....it was about her and her alone.

How many times do I have to type 'Cheating is wrong'. The right thing to do is to break up first, some people aren't mature enough at the time to do that. Some people are mature enough, but don't for other reasons, which I'll show an example of below. All I'm saying is that when relationships end because of cheating, the person who does the cheating is villafied and it's often never talked about what an asshole the other partner was. I do think cheating is wrong, but I also think in the court of public opinion, the person who was cheated on often gets let of the hook for being a total asshole and completely neglectful to their partner.

I have an 'ex acquaintance' who's wife cheated on him and left. I think what she did was completely wrong, but I also know that he was a verbally abusive asshole towards her for years. Because of that, she chose to find another partner first before ending it purely as a need to feel protected and safe. He was such a dick, she thought the verbal abuse might've turned physical. The people who know these individuals are split down the middle. Some side with the ex-husband, some side with her. I think what she did was wrong, but I do understand why she did it.

 

[deadheadskier]

No if your unhappy in a relationship just leave .. so to wander is like trying to find a better deal before leaving. I told my ex it wasn't so much her leaving it was about how she went about it. She might have been unhappy but I had no opportunity to know about it or try to do something about it. My answer just might have been leave then if that is what will make you happy.. But I was not part of the process to end the relationship.

I'm sorry that happened to you. Indeed I would be very hurt to....it wasn't fair to you.

 

[Moe Ghoul]

Cake dumpage?? Sorry, you can't push that "frosting" off and salvage a cake. I think it's more akin to a half eaten steak or sandwich from a stranger. You can cut away the nibbled bits and still salvage some untainted food. Cheating is more like mildew, once it gets in the fabric, there is no cure. You either learn to forgive and live with the odor, or throw it out.

 

[thetrailboss]

How many times do I have to type 'Cheating is wrong'. The right thing to do is to break up first, some people aren't mature enough at the time to do that. Some people are mature enough, but don't for other reasons, which I'll show an example of below. All I'm saying is that when relationships end because of cheating, the person who does the cheating is villafied and it's often never talked about what an asshole the other partner was. I do think cheating is wrong, but I also think in the court of public opinion, the person who was cheated on often gets let of the hook for being a total asshole and completely neglectful to their partner.

I have an 'ex acquaintance' who's wife cheated on him and left. I think what she did was completely wrong, but I also know that he was a verbally abusive asshole towards her for years. Because of that, she chose to find another partner first before ending it purely as a need to feel protected and safe. He was such a dick, she thought the verbal abuse might've turned physical. The people who know these individuals are split down the middle. Some side with the ex-husband, some side with her. I think what she did was wrong, but I do understand why she did it.

Coming from the POV of being the cheated on, and being villafied for being the victim, I don't think that the cheatee is always wrong. I did nothing wrong, other than love someone who was a complete narcisist.

 

[Moe Ghoul]

It's the riddle of the ages, if there was an absolute answer, this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[deadheadskier]

Coming from the POV of being the cheated on, and being villafied for being the victim, I don't think that the cheatee is always wrong. I did nothing wrong, other than love someone who was a complete narcisist.

Then you're probably better off for it; despite the pain you went through. Trust me, I've gone through my fair share infidelity in my life. It hurts beyond belief. In one situation, I didn't date for almost two years I was so hurt and my confidence shot from the girl leaving me.

Looking back, I'm glad it happened. We weren't right for one another. It took me several years to realize that though.

 

[severine]

I'm surprised there is this much activity in this thread already!

Let me start off with the obvious (in my case), which is that cheating is never right. Cheating is a symptom of another problem, whether that be low self-esteem, relationship issues, midlife, whatever. It's not an answer to those problems and the problems will only continue until they are addressed, one way or another. Problems in a relationship are 50/50. Both are responsible; lack of communication or ineffective communication often exacerbate. Still, if it's bad, leave. Don't go checking out the market before you make that final decision. Or put the work in and try to figure out what the problems are together, because you can only work out problems that way; one person can't do all the work.

What do I think? I'm not so sure that humans as a species are meant to mate for life. Maybe back when people lived about 30 years. But today when people live longer, I think it's unrealistic to expect a couple to weather 50, 60, 70 years together. Sure, you may get 20 years, possibly 30, if you're lucky. But in the process, you both change and someone feels left behind or the other feels they've outgrown the first, and there's an imbalance that can't always be overcome. The honorable thing is to figure out what the problems are, work on them if you can, or end it if you can't. But not everybody does the honorable thing. We're human, we're imperfect, we all make mistakes. I don't think it's the mistakes that are the key; it's how life is handled after the mistakes that show the true make of a person.

So with that said, I'm also not so sure marriage is the right thing anymore either. "Til death do us part" seems naive and childish. Nobody wishes for the worst when they start a relationship (and I agree with what was said above about that lust stage in the beginning, BTW). But to expect someone to stay with you through thick and thin seems unrealistic these days. I blame that on changes in attitude, on this sense of entitlement that seems to prevail in younger circles. Instead of give AND take, it's all take for some. And in that case, there's no way a marriage would succeed. Might was well chalk up the losses, be the best person you can be, and find a more suitable partner.

Divorce rates may have dropped over the last 30 years (thanks for the link, GSS) but attitudes about marriage have definitely changed. More are deciding not to marry at all, which I think I can understand now. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Just that views have obviously changed.

A great comparison would be work. Think back to your parents' generation when a person expected to work their entire life for the same company and cash in on a pension (or whatever) for all their years of hard work and service. Last I heard (about 10 years ago), these days you can expect to change careers around 7 times in your lifetime. Whether that's because of layoffs, dissatisfaction, career change, relocation, whatever, it's still not what it used to be. Attitudes have changed.

Sorry, my thoughts are a bit rambling because I have a 1 year old who keeps pulling on my clothes trying to climb on me. I apologize if it doesn't make sense.

ETA: Just to round out the discussion, when I was 17, I cheated on my boyfriend. But we were together....2 weeks? A little different, IMHO, than marriage. However, I still feel badly about it years later. It was a stupid moment of passion thing and I let it get to my head. And while in the past (yes, while married) I had also thought about it because I felt neglected and unloved, I never acted on it because my marriage and family were worth more to me. But it was still a gutless thing and I wonder why I didn't just man up and talk about my problems instead of letting them fester. Just so nobody thinks I'm sitting here proclaiming to be Miss Innocent, high and mighty. We're all human, we all make mistakes. But maybe we're just not meant to be with 1 person for a lifetime, and we're fighting nature? Or maybe I'm just telling myself that to make me feel better? Knowing what I know now, though, I would NEVER inflict the pain of infidelity on another person. Never.

 

[MR. evil]

Sorry, but I disagree. If someone is cheating, or thinking of it, they need to have the balls to come to terms with why and speak with their partner and try to resolve it if they value that person. If not, end it. Simply saying, "my needs are not met," should not be a free pass to do whatever the hell one wants and cheat on their partner.

+1

great post!

 

[OldsnowboarderME]

My parents have been married over 60 years .. yup they have had their ups and downs too.. You can do whatever you choose to do .. maybe there should be 5 year marriage contracts, renewable for this generation ..This going to be a shock for most of you but marriage sole purpose was to have and raise children not to make you happy all the time .. you can be happy doing this but it is not a requirement.

 

[snoseek]

Isn't it a man's biological instict to spread his seed to continue survival of the human race? Haha I guess that was maybe true in the dark ages but Probably the main reason for cheating is low self-esteem or lack of maturity, or just being just plain selfish. I mean wouldn't we all like to have dirty hot sex with whoever we please without any consequences. Everyone has desires, it's the keepers that have it together enough to resist these desires and think of their partner. It takes the right two people but can certainly be done happily I think (or hope).

The whole idea of marraige puzzles the hell out of me (and perhaps other men too). It follows the princepals of religion and law, neither of which I personally follow. I can totally see it becoming more obsolete as less people have kids and even fewer go to church. I mean why exactly do we need a leagal document to express love to someone? "you better stay with me or else" WTF. If you have a distinct life plan that involves lots of kids then I suppose-but plans always seem to fail miserably and when they do having to deal with a bunch of kook lawyers and pay them sucks.


I do think people that habitually cheat suck and deserve to be together-if that's possible.

 

[snoseek]

My parents have been married over 60 years .. yup they have had their ups and downs too.. You can do whatever you choose to do .. maybe there should be 5 year marriage contracts, renewable for this generation ..This going to be a shock for most of you but marriage sole purpose was to have and raise children not to make you happy all the time .. you can be happy doing this but it is not a requirement.

5 year contracts, that's a pretty good idea.

 

[Greg]

I think a monogamous marriage is important if you plan to have kids. And if there are kids involved, a cheater cheated on more than just one person.

 

[OldsnowboarderME]

All this gets heavily into anthropology .. the system is changing but I am afraid not for the good.. the human species could just become another failed biological experiment of nature ...

 

[thetrailboss]

Probably the main reason for cheating is low self-esteem or lack of maturity, or just being just plain selfish.

Well, with my ex it was all three (in hindsight). Good riddance!

I mean why exactly do we need a leagal document to express love to someone? "you better stay with me or else" WTF. If you have a distinct life plan that involves lots of kids then I suppose-but plans always seem to fail miserably and when they do having to deal with a bunch of kook lawyers and pay them sucks.

The reason for marriage is simple. Both the church, and the state, need people to procreate to survive. The whole intent is to provide an incentive for people to have kids (legal benefits, tax benefits, security, etc., etc.) because without kids there is no more civil society...