Vote for Utah ski bus

[skinowworklater]

I live in VA and snows just don't make sense here unless you're driving into the mtns all the time. I've done quite a few cross country ski roadtrips, some with 4wd, some without, but none with snow tires. We're talking 4500-7000 mile winter trips. Mostly I've been fine, but there was a snowy evening in 2019 crossing over 11,300' Monarch Pass, CO when I slide for about 75 scary yards but it ended ok. Also, long ago (1970s) slide sideways about same distance down the access road at Blue Knob, PA. It's an upside down ski area and this was near the 3000' summit. No harm done again.
But snow tires can be great in the proper situation, especially paired with 4wd. My son lives 20 mins from Snowbird and skis several days per week. He runs a Subaru with snow tires in the winter up LCC and BCC. When I'm out there with him and it snows we take his vehicle
PS: correction, there was a roadtrip my son and I took in January 2011 from VA to UT. We drove out there with his 1992 Accord. We took his old car because he was going to school and skiing in western PA at the time and had put snow tires on it.
Took that car up to Maine too, guess where:

Mount Abrams?

 

[jimk]

Mount Abrams?

Correct! Good mountain. I can only wonder what millennials think of the anachronistic Rocky and Bullwinkle theme to the trails names, OK Boomer!

Here's another scary account from a friend on recent Utah ski traffic from Saturday, Jan 30, 2021:
Solitude's car parks were completely full by 8:45 a.m. Brighton likely was similar. Many, many hundreds of cars then proceeded to road park, a significant number of them illegally (virtually no enforcement thus far this season) and numerous others to their own detriment (owners ended up returning to a vehicle that during the day had sunk into deep soft snow and was stuck). The canyon (BCC) closed for the 6th time this season due to "extreme congestion" for over 3 hours. During the closure period, UPD/UDOT turned around over 1,600 additional vehicles. The red snake was a fitting conclusion to the day.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Do the people who live in the homes across the street from Solitude & Brighton get a pass when they close the canyon; I imagine so, right?

 

[FBGM]

And if you were not fighting for parking and resort skiing yesterday in Utah you were in the BC causing avalanches and dying.

12 years here, don’t know if I ever remember so many reported slides, accidents and somehow only 1 death.

 

[jaytrem]

Exactly ~ 30 minutes to do mine. No brainer

Slowpokes, it only take me 4 Minutes per tire!

Actually need to get some for my new 4runner, the rims from the last one are too small. Snow tires needed to be replaced anyway.

 

[thetrailboss]

And if you were not fighting for parking and resort skiing yesterday in Utah you were in the BC causing avalanches and dying.

12 years here, don’t know if I ever remember so many reported slides, accidents and somehow only 1 death.

Two deaths this season to date....so far

The lines last night at NIGHT riding at Brighton were 20-30 minutes for Crest Express. All those IKON folks who wanted to use their Brighton days. They don’t require a reservation for nights. And there were some assclowns there last night. Whether it was the bro who wanted “more space” in the lift line so he could crush a can of beer without a mask or the guy who yelled at me for riding single there were some d-bags out.

 

[thetrailboss]

Pent-up demand for skiing, snowboarding results in heavy Cottonwoods traffic

With parts of the Wasatch Mountains receiving another foot of snow overnight, long lines and traffic jams plagued the Cottonwood Canyons on Saturday.

www.fox13now.com

 

[FBGM]

Two deaths this season to date....so far

The lines last night at NIGHT riding at Brighton were 20-30 minutes for Crest Express. All those IKON folks who wanted to use their Brighton days. They don’t require a reservation for nights. And there were some assclowns there last night. Whether it was the bro who wanted “more space” in the lift line so he could crush a can of beer without a mask or the guy who yelled at me for riding single there were some d-bags out.

I was just talking stats about yesterday.

BC dentist dads and Instagram bros are oddly not the ones dying or trying to die.

 

[kingslug]

And how did I get to work when everyone else could not..snowtires...yeah I'm sure I'll get a trophy for it...

 

[thetrailboss]

Wow. This is so full of BS I don’t know where to start.

The Alta Parking Issue

As the Salt Lake Valley population continues to grow, parking is becoming more and more of a premium at Alta and in the Town of Alta.

www.alta.com

 

[ss20]

Wow. This is so full of BS I don’t know where to start.

The Alta Parking Issue

As the Salt Lake Valley population continues to grow, parking is becoming more and more of a premium at Alta and in the Town of Alta.

www.alta.com

Why do you feel that way (no snark...honest question)? Seems reasonable to me, and certainly beats paying $20 to park like at Solitude. The Alta ski area lots are private land owned/leased by the ski area, correct?

 

[ss20]

What I find interesting is that today, on a Saturday, Alta had parking still available according to the Twitter. Dry week according to the snow report, but still impressive given how well the mountain must be skiing, I'd ASSume.

 

[ScottySkis]

"A mountain ops day is never done . #mountainops #weloveourgroomers #weloveoursnowmakers #keepingitreal #myplatty"""
From best hill in Catskills pounding snow out tinguft from their Facebook page

 

[thetrailboss]

Why do you feel that way (no snark...honest question)? Seems reasonable to me, and certainly beats paying $20 to park like at Solitude. The Alta ski area lots are private land owned/leased by the ski area, correct?

Because their plight is not due to BC folks or non skiers. It’s due to IKON. And picking a fight with the neighbors and town is really stupid.

 

[cdskier]

Because their plight is not due to BC folks or non skiers. It’s due to IKON. And picking a fight with the neighbors and town is really stupid.

So are you saying the supposedly 200 spots used by non-Alta skiers is not an accurate number? Or are you saying those people parking in Alta's lots is irrelevant as the number of non-Alta skiers using the lots really hasn't changed much over the years?

 

[thetrailboss]

So are you saying the supposedly 200 spots used by non-Alta skiers is not an accurate number? Or are you saying those people parking in Alta's lots is irrelevant as the number of non-Alta skiers using the lots really hasn't changed much over the years?

I am not buying that they are losing money from BC skiers, townsfolk, and homeowners to a significant degree. It's ironic that the once self-proclaimed "locals" mountain has now declared war on the Town and their neighbors. The reason they run short of parking so early now is because of IKON and population growth. Add in Snowbird's parking reservation system and it is bad. The reason for any revenue shortfalls is due to people not buying day tickets and using their IKON passes. I imagine their skier days are up but revenue is flat if not lower.

I have no issue with them asking folks to show passes/tickets before parking. It does not impact me.

Once again Alta/Bird could have revisited the IKON program and either required reservations or put restrictions on the passes (as they have done at Aspen, Jackson Hole, Big Sky, Brighton, and now Crystal) but that honey is too sweet I guess. So apparently if you own a home there, want to park in town to patronize a restaurant, or want to earn some turns then you are taking money out of Alta's pocket. How dare you!

 

[cdskier]

I am not buying that they are losing money from BC skiers, townsfolk, and homeowners to a significant degree. It's ironic that the once self-proclaimed "locals" mountain has now declared war on the Town and their neighbors. The reason they run short of parking so early now is because of IKON and population growth. Add in Snowbird's parking reservation system and it is bad. The reason for any revenue shortfalls is due to people not buying day tickets and using their IKON passes. I imagine their skier days are up but revenue is flat if not lower.

I have no issue with them asking folks to show passes/tickets before parking. It does not impact me.

Once again Alta/Bird could have revisited the IKON program and either required reservations or put restrictions on the passes (as they have done at Aspen, Jackson Hole, Big Sky, Brighton, and now Crystal) but that honey is too sweet I guess. So apparently if you own a home there, want to park in town to patronize a restaurant, or want to earn some turns then you are taking money out of Alta's pocket. How dare you!

To be fair, it remains to be seen whether any of the Ikon reservation requirements at the resorts you mention will exist post-COVID. Some of those resorts even say things like "we're requiring reservations from Ikon passholder in case we end up needing to limit capacity." So some resorts are requiring reservations but not actually limiting them. They just wanted to have a system in place in case they needed to put limits in place. Easier to have a system and not truly need it instead of have a capacity issue and need to rush to implement something mid-season.

And you're right that Alta/Bird presumably could have revisited the Ikon partnership and negotiated something like Jackson did with being an add-on to the base Ikon pass. However doesn't the fact that they didn't kind of go against your argument that they have revenue shortfalls due to people using Ikon? Obviously the people with access to the numbers think there's a benefit (a financial benefit would be the logical assumption).

I'd also be a bit curious to know how much of their crowding issues are due to population growth vs Ikon. There's no denying population growth is something that is happening in your area. Is it 50/50 population growth/Ikon causing issues? Or is it 80/20? 20/80? I'd just like to have more actual facts before jumping on the "Ikon is the root of all evil" train.

 

[thetrailboss]

And you're right that Alta/Bird presumably could have revisited the Ikon partnership and negotiated something like Jackson did with being an add-on to the base Ikon pass. However doesn't the fact that they didn't kind of go against your argument that they have revenue shortfalls due to people using Ikon? Obviously the people with access to the numbers think there's a benefit (a financial benefit would be the logical assumption).

That's what is crazy about IKON and Alta/Snowbird. If you look more closely you see that Alta and Snowbird actually split the revenue. So it is less than if it was one resort. The conventional wisdom is that people will come from out of town and stay at Snowbird, buy food, buy souvenirs, etc. to make up any difference. The reality is that many locals to Utah have abandoned a single resort pass and moved to IKON. So they are not buying food, renting rooms, etc.

Snowbird's owner wants to remain because all of POWDR's resorts are IKON. So they get a bigger piece of the pie.

I'd also be a bit curious to know how much of their crowding issues are due to population growth vs Ikon. There's no denying population growth is something that is happening in your area. Is it 50/50 population growth/Ikon causing issues? Or is it 80/20? 20/80? I'd just like to have more actual facts before jumping on the "Ikon is the root of all evil" train.

I think both play a significant role. One only needs look at BCC and the difference before IKON and after. Before there was almost NEVER a backup to get off Wasatch, Boulevard and up BCC. Now it is literally every weekend day. Solitude is the ONLY unlimited option on IKON.

Of course we feel the impacts more here because (a) the canyons are hard to get up, (b) we have a lot of people here, (c) most of those people moved here to ski (me included in 2011), and (d) we have a tourism marketing machine that has pushed a lot of folks to visit. The "Mighty Five" campaign was too successful. So is IKON many of us would say. Restricting it to reservation only or limit the days would help ease things. Consider that Snowbird has (or had) 10,000 passholders alone. Now add Alta and Ikon and there is a lot of traffic.

 

[jimk]

Despite all the bad Utah traffic talk I've been able to ski 12 out of the last 17 days at Snowbird despite not having a single parking reservation before my first ski day out here on 19 Feb. The days I did not ski were because I took off to do some home improvement work and rest. Weekdays have been very easy to get last minute parking reservations. Weekends have been a little tougher, but my son helps me by sharing a ride or reservation. There was one day when I had to park on the access road (unreserved), but it was near the top of the Chickidee lift and easy to/from Peruvian lift.
I agree with trailboss, Ikon was absolutely a game changer and crowd maker out here. There's been a population boom, there's been an increase in out of town visitors, but most of all the locals are skiing more often with their cheap Ikon passes. One tell tale sign is that some of the quietest days of the season are on holiday blackout dates, when the locals don't ski because they have the ikon basic pass.
Lunch on bypass road today:

 

[kingslug]

Going to hit PC and Brighton..Guess I'll see how it is now. Haven't been since last year when we where at PC and it closed, thankfully on our last day. Maybe convince them to go to Snowbird or Alta as thats where i really like to go..but when your invited to a condo in the Canyons..you go.