Vote for Utah ski bus

[jimmywilson69]

right so Gondola...

 

[x10003q]

The short term issue is that there are not enough bus drivers. UTA cannot find any and there is a lot of turnover. When people here bitch I ask, "well, would you want to drive a public transit bus?" The answer is always a resounding, "no!"

There is a simple solution - increase the pay until they have enough drivers. It is the quickest, cheapest and most efficient way to solve the traffic issues today. The bus solution certainly is cheaper than the gondola.

 

[thetrailboss]

There is a simple solution - increase the pay until they have enough drivers. It is the quickest, cheapest and most efficient way to solve the traffic issues today. The bus solution certainly is cheaper than the gondola.

True on both counts.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The bus solution certainly is cheaper than the gondola.

You would think, but I'd still like to see the numbers, especially since this proposal isn't like the prior bus plan we saw figures for, it's a "bus explosion". At some point, after X years I'd expect the gondola to actually be cheaper after factoring in repeated bus maintenance, new buses, full-time salary and medical, benefits, etc...

 

[Vter]

What the fuck are you talking about ?
I am, have been accociated with Bus Transportation for a long time, including you bum fuck piece of shit skiers (ya, I’m one too)
To even suggest that over the long term a rad new super gondola is even in the same ballpark as busses $$$ is plain stupidity..
I’m not going to do the math for you, but here are some inputs: 1 brand new Bus = $150,000 (more like 50G skier bus) Driver = $30 + K MAX everyday no holiday sick or vacation pay for 6 months. No insurance, No benifits, no fucking anything ! Mechanics yes, another 30Gs max. These are all inflated guesstimates and the fucking bus will run for 25 years x what how many busses 4-6. They will Run all day long given the proper support.

25-30 year Lifespan of new rad gondola is
How much $$$$

 

[BenedictGomez]

What the fuck are you talking about ?
I am, have been accociated with Bus Transportation for a long time, including you bum fuck piece of shit skiers (ya, I’m one too)
To even suggest that over the long term a rad new super gondola is even in the same ballpark as busses $$$ is plain stupidity..
I’m not going to do the math for you, but here are some inputs: 1 brand new Bus = $150,000 (more like 50G skier bus) Driver = $30 + K MAX everyday no holiday sick or vacation pay for 6 months. No insurance, No benifits, no fucking anything ! Mechanics yes, another 30Gs max. These are all inflated guesstimates and the fucking bus will run for 25 years x what how many busses 4-6. They will Run all day long given the proper support.

25-30 year Lifespan of new rad gondola is
How much $$$$

Well for starters it sounds like you're not remotely familiar with either plan.

The bus plan isn't just about buses and personnel, it also includes significant road construction costs for lanes and dedicated turnaround, parking garage, and hubs, etc... The estimates are 4 years old and with inflation we'd have to bump up the gondy cost, but of course we'd also have to bump up the wages, bus, and construction costs as well.

In any event the original 2021 cost projections were:

Gondy $592 Million
Buses $510 Million

That's only about a 14% variance. Operating costs per year quite similar, a touch more expensive for buses.

So no, it's not "pLaNe sTooPidiTee" to want to see updated 2025 financial projections.

https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/buses-or-gondolas-udot-weighs-pros-and-cons-of-little-cottonwood-canyon-plans/

 

[Former Sunday Rivah Rat]

Gondy $592 Million
Buses $510 Million

https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/buses-or-gondolas-udot-weighs-pros-and-cons-of-little-cottonwood-canyon-plans/

After living though the decade plus Big Dig shitshow in Boston I learned that these Mega projects tend to multiply in cost:
"The original estimated cost of the Big Dig was approximately $2.8 billion, but the final cost reached about $14.6 billion, representing a significant cost overrun. Some estimates even suggest the total cost could be as high as $24.3 billion when considering all expenses related to the project"
Trusting that they can build the Gondy for only 592 Million is a fools errand for the marks, ie: the Utah taxpayer.
Another nuisance is the increase in travel delays due to construction impacting traffic over the next several years.
If they wanted to they could increase the bus service fairly quickly with a more competitive pay/benefit package. = Immediate solution.

 

[BenedictGomez]

After living though the decade plus Big Dig shitshow in Boston I learned that these Mega projects tend to multiply in cost:

Oh, 100%. I imagine whatever they say the Bus/Gondy costs it will be more.

That Big Dig was a catastrophe though, I think it just might be the #1 most famously cited example of government incompetence and/or corruption vis-a-vis a construction project.

 

[drjeff]

Oh, 100%. I imagine whatever they say the Bus/Gondy costs it will be more.

That Big Dig was a catastrophe though, I think it just might be the #1 most famously cited example of government incompetence and/or corruption vis-a-vis a construction project.

For now that sure may be the case, although with some of the estimates floating around now, the rebuilding of that bridge in Baltimore that was struck by the ship that lost power a bit over a year ago or so, may end up rivaling that in the end

 

[4aprice]

In any event the original 2021 cost projections were:

Gondy $592 Million
Buses $510 Million

That's only about a 14% variance. Operating costs per year quite similar, a touch more expensive for buses.

So no, it's not "pLaNe sTooPidiTee" to want to see updated 2025 financial projections.

https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/buses-or-gondolas-udot-weighs-pros-and-cons-of-little-cottonwood-canyon-plans/

Do the bus costs include both Canyons or just LCC? The gondola of course would only serve LCC.

 

[ss20]

3 things certain in life- death, taxes, and arguing about the lcc gondola.

BOTH the gondola and the highway up little cottonwood are boondoggles. There are TONS of smaller things UDOT and the ski areas can implement to control traffic- downhill metering, tolling, actual traction law enforcement, bus service returning to pre-covid levels, Snowbird requiring parking reservations, staging plows in LCC, snowsheds, carpool incentives, etc...etc...etc.

A publicly funded $700m-$1b+ megaproject is not a solution to something that's a problem 20-30 days a year.

I also really do believe we'll see participation in snowsports decline in the very near future. There are a lot of concerning trends and things working against the ski industry right now... too many to list.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Not just in this specific instance, but I am not a fan of tolls as a punitive way to "force" people to take a method of transportation (buses) they dislike.

 

[teleo]

I got a wild idea. How about only busses and emergency vehicles on bcc and lcc in ski season. No private cars. None. Need to build parking somewhere, but getting up and down would be fast and might make it easier to hire drivers. Would never be accepted, but interesting to think outside the box.

 

[benski]

What the fuck are you talking about ?
I am, have been accociated with Bus Transportation for a long time, including you bum fuck piece of shit skiers (ya, I’m one too)
To even suggest that over the long term a rad new super gondola is even in the same ballpark as busses $$$ is plain stupidity..
I’m not going to do the math for you, but here are some inputs: 1 brand new Bus = $150,000 (more like 50G skier bus) Driver = $30 + K MAX everyday no holiday sick or vacation pay for 6 months. No insurance, No benifits, no fucking anything ! Mechanics yes, another 30Gs max. These are all inflated guesstimates and the fucking bus will run for 25 years x what how many busses 4-6. They will Run all day long given the proper support.

25-30 year Lifespan of new rad gondola is
How much $$$$

UTA busses cost a lot more than 150K. Transit busses are 400-800K, and last 12-15 years. Are you talking those minibusses like a Ford Transit?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-09-26/us-cities-are-paying-too-much-for-new-transit-buses?sref=BSIBpqiz

 

[jimk]

I'm a gondola man, but I'm likely to be pushing up daisies before it ever happens. In the meantime, the UTA restored the bus line to Alta-Bird that goes by my accommodations, so I'm happy.