What constitutes challenge? Pitch or Surface

[Greg]

The http://forums.alpinezone.com/23066-most-challenging-blues.html sparked an idea for another thread. What creates more of a challenge, steeper pitch or a challenging surface, i.e. deep powder, bumps, etc.? For example, do you find a very steep yet groomed run more challenging that a flatter ungroomed run? Obviously, steep and ungroomed is the ultimate challenge, but individually which is more difficult?

 

[kingslug]

Ice...in its many incarnations is my challenge, but only when its pretty steep. I skied 40 plus degree runs out west with no prob but don't like a run like Clairs when its all iced up. So I would say the condition of the run is the challenge.

 

[danny p]

i agree with conditions/surface...ice can make some rather unchallenging runs super challenging, and on the other hand, if a foot of pow has dropped I'm not worried about any trail being too challenging, for me pow makes everything easier.

 

[Paul]

A little of both, really. Its all relative. I think mechanically, uneven surface is more challenging than steep pitch. Mentally, I find steepness to present more of a challenge. For me, at least, its all about perception.

 

[jack97]

Yup, surface/conditions. Go to a place like Cannon after a good dump, the place is fun. Conversely, a 1-2 week snow drought, the trails are down to boilerplate, then its gets interesting looking down those steep trails.

IMO, that's where having good technique comes in, skiing in control when surface conditions are non optimum.... .....ok, step down from soapbox.

 

[ssudha17]

I would agree that bad conditions make any terrain hard to ski. But on a good day with decent amount of snow on the ground, I find bumps more challenging than steep.

 

[Warp Daddy]

As others have said : Conditions are the big thing to me

 

[drjeff]

Surface, hands down.

Just think of some of the highly traveled green trails at a busy ski area about 3PM on the Saturday of a Holiday weekend

While pitch may get some kudos in the "pucker factor" department, it's all about the surface for me when it comes to challenge!

 

[Dr Skimeister]

Surface/snow condition, combined with trail contour and traffic are what I find contribute to challenge more that just steepness or pitch.

 

[cbcbd]

45 degrees in deep powder? puhleeze

I love the steeps but conditions are everything

 

[campgottagopee]

Like most, IMO surface/conditions really are the biggest challenge for most trails.

 

[ckofer]

A narrow trail through the woods that's bumped up and icy. Now that doesn't even need to be steep.

 

[Mark_151]

Surface -- just ski Smith-Walton right after a dump, then after it's been scraped off a few hours later.

 

[riverc0il]

Any one can slide down a scraped down steep icy groomer. But surface conditions can make people cry. A lot depends on your ability too. Beginners and intermediates are pretty darn intimidated by pitch and might even welcome some stairs or soft powder to help slide down the slope on their rump at a slower velocity.

Personally though, I say neither. Obstacles does it for me. I have yet to come to a pitch I have been uncomfortable on or lose ability due to what ever factor. But I back off obstacles or get reserved if something is really nasty. I also avoid ice on slopes I would other wise tackle, especially trees when they are really crunchy.

 

[Marc]

Personally though, I say neither. Obstacles does it for me. I have yet to come to a pitch I have been uncomfortable on or lose ability due to what ever factor. But I back off obstacles or get reserved if something is really nasty. I also avoid ice on slopes I would other wise tackle, especially trees when they are really crunchy.

+1

 

[hiroto]

Obstacles does it for me.

Do people count as obstacles? Interesting observation here.

 

[wintersyndrome]

angle of slope--consistency of surface conditions--presence of multiple fall lines--skier traffic--obstacles--lighting

Im sure I could come up with some algebraic formula on this, but I find the combination of these elements determine how tough a slope or trail is...and that degree of difficulty can change with the alteration of any one of these factors.

 

[Hawkshot99]

There are very few steep groomers with good snow that scare me. I may ski down them in a different style because of the speed i could build up, but I am not scared of them. Ice scares me.

I would much rather ski a steep good snow trail verses a mellow icy trail.

 

[deadheadskier]

Surface definitely


I am really never concerned with how steep a trail is. That has pretty much been the case since I was an intermediate skier. If the snow is decent, no worries

However, you could put me on a mild blue run today and if it's glare ice and I don't have the right skis underfoot with properly tuned edges.....I'm going to struggle at least a little bit. There isn't a single run I've met in the past fifteen years (barring something like corbets with mandatory air) that has legitamately scared me provided the snow is good.

Surface just seems to be a more defining factor of challange across the board no matter what level of skier you are. There are plenty of novice/intermediates out there who FREAK when they have to ski fresh powder on low level blue runs. They have no idea what to do with it. The proof in that is the fact that most, not all, ski areas in the east will still groom 90% of their terrain if there is an overnight storm and they have the time to do so before the lifts run.

 

[Zand]

I'll use Ripcord at Mt. Snow as an example.

Last April, I skied it in 8" of fresh powder and it was your typical short, steep headwall. Few short turns and that's it. Then I skied it again on Monday on just about sheet ice. Read my TR if you want to know how that one went...