Why Does Berkshire East Use False Elevation Stats?

[thetrailboss]

The mountainvertical site is no more, but it is still archived in the way back machine, and shows 923 vertical feet for Berkshire East, 1123 for Jiminy, and 945 for Wachusett (and notably 1645 for Killington).

Link:

Best Ski Resorts on the East Coast: Snowboarding/Skiing Stats

web.archive.org

View attachment 62766

I was just about to mention that site.

 

[trackbiker]

I was just about to mention that site.

The problem with that site was it was not consistent in it's method for each area. They only gave Killington the vertical off the K-1 but they gave Sugarbush 2552 ft. where you had to take 2 lifts to get that vertical. Same with Whiteface where you have to take two lifts. Skiing from the top of the K-1 to the bottom of the Skyship is very doable without stopping.

 

[cdskier]

The problem with that site was it was not consistent in it's method for each area. They only gave Killington the vertical off the K-1 but they gave Sugarbush 2552 ft. where you had to take 2 lifts to get that vertical. Same with Whiteface where you have to take two lifts. Skiing from the top of the K-1 to the bottom of the Skyship is very doable without stopping.

Actually their methodology is quite consistent.

"In a nutshell, it represents the most vertical distance at a resort that can be achieved on commonly skied, lift-served, continuous fall-line runs."

I'd bet there are a significant number of people that have never even been to the base of Skyeship. And that's exactly the point on why counting that vertical is just inflating their number without really being meaningful.

 

[RH29]

Actually their methodology is quite consistent.

"In a nutshell, it represents the most vertical distance at a resort that can be achieved on commonly skied, lift-served, continuous fall-line runs."

I'd bet there are a significant number of people that have never even been to the base of Skyeship. And that's exactly the point on why counting that vertical is just inflating their number without really being meaningful.

Maybe not, but from the peak to the bottom of Bear, Needles, or Snowdon is very doable.

 

[letitsnow1]

Maybe not, but from the peak to the bottom of Bear, Needles, or Snowdon is very doable.

It's very doable but it isn't a continuous fall line run.

 

[cdskier]

It's very doable but it isn't a continuous fall line run.

Yea...I went back to K a couple years ago after having not been there for about 10 years. One of the things that stuck out to me was how much "shorter" the mountain skied than what I had remembered and what their vertical claims. From a vertical perspective, Pico skis bigger than K IMO.

 

[Newpylong]

K is a 1600 vert pod hill, but tons of people ski Peak to Creek and it's even advertised on the trail map. The 3,000 vert number is absolutely warranted. This isn't subjective as the numbers don't lie. No one else in the East offers runs of that length while also dropping that much in elevation.

 

[Zand]

K is a 1600 vert pod hill, but tons of people ski Peek to Creek and it's even advertised on the trail map. The 3,000 vert number is absolutely warranted. This isn't subjective as the numbers don't lie. No one else in the East offers runs of that length while also dropping that much in elevation.

I still don't understand why people try to claim Killington's vert isn't real. If you're at a place like Deer Valley where you have to go up and down multiple peaks to get the full vertical, then it gets complicated (but the vert is still ultimately summit to base). But there's no argument that Killington has 3050 in vert that can easily be skied in one run without any ridiculous traverses. I get it that all the pods are really 1200ish but the true vertical is what it is.

 

[x10003q]

The other one that is complete bullshit is Stratton. They claim their vertical is an (oddly specific) 2003'. The biggest vertical drop is on the Sunbowl side, but it's about 1900' to the Sunbowl Lodge. If they just threw out "yeah we have 2k vert" then I would be like whatever, they rounded up. 2003' is oddly specific when it's completely made up. If they really want it to be 2003' vertical, then they need to cut a trail down to the golf course. I guess that's more likely than Berkshire East blowing a 200' deep hole into the ground for their stats to be accurate.

Stratton is loaded with discrepancies.

Stratton claims top elevation of 3875ft with a vertical of 2003ft. The 3875ft seems to be the top elevation of the gondola (1742 vert ft). The actual top elevation of Stratton Mtn at the fire tower is 3927ft, although I have seen 3940ft, too. The lowest base you can ski to when looking at topos is about 2000ft - the Sunbowl Lodge or Lot 2. That would make the vertical 1875ft from the top of the gondola to the Sunbowl base. But, the Sunrise Express (1122vert ft) out of the Sunbowl base plus the Shooting Star Express (798ft vert) add up to 1920 vertical feet. I do not think there is much of a drop from the top of the Sunrise Express to the bottom of the Shooting Star.

Possible verticals:
Stratton claims 2003ft
Topos suggest 1875ft
The Sunrise plus Shooting Star adds up to 1920ft
If we use 3940ft fire tower as the top elevation we get to 1940ft.
Still not as bad as Berkshire East.

 

[urungus]

Maybe not, but from the peak to the bottom of Bear, Needles, or Snowdon is very doable.

It's very doable but it isn't a continuous fall line run.

Not easily lappable either.

 

[Harvey]

At least at Killington you can ski from the top of the K1 to Rt 4 for the full vertical,

I don't understand the idea that vert doesn't count if you can't ski it top to bottom in one run. I'm no Killy expert but don't you ski a narrow traverse style trail to ski the full vert? I'd bet that most here would hate the full vert run at Gore. You'd have to skate for god sakes.

Big vert means that you have a better chance of finding good snow on the mountain. To me that is the advantage.

 

[2Planker]

That's why we like the Cat
4K footer w/ 2K of vert off of one lift

 

[djd66]

Not easily lappable either.

Its not lappable form Killington Peak to the base,... however it is lappable from Skye Peak to the base - which is 2609 of vertical. 9' more than Sugarbush with 2 lift rides

 

[Newpylong]

Right and with a two seat ride you got the whole 3K vert and while by no means death defying, it's not a traverse either.

 

[Zand]

Right and with a two seat ride you got the whole 3K vert and while by no means death defying, it's not a traverse either.

Off the top of my head, there's only 4 lifts that even have 2k vert in the east. Fourrunner and Gondola at Stowe, Madonna at Smuggs, and Wildcat Quad. MRG Single and Cannon Tram are a few feet short.

EDIT: Obviously Skyeship also as discussed above.

Forgot about Whiteface...that Gondy is I believe 2500ish, or you can take the Express Quad and then Summit Quad to get the 3200 vert.

 

[djd66]

As a kid, I would love to bomb down Great Eastern all the way to Route 4,.... fast forward 30 year and I got to do it with my kids - they loved that run when they were young!

 

[deadheadskier]

Off the top of my head, there's only 4 lifts that even have 2k vert in the east. Fourrunner and Gondola at Stowe, Madonna at Smuggs, and Wildcat Quad. MRG Single and Cannon Tram are a few feet short.

EDIT: Obviously Skyeship also as discussed above.

Forgot about Whiteface...that Gondy is I believe 2500ish, or you can take the Express Quad and then Summit Quad to get the 3200 vert.

According to Liftblog, Cannon Tram is 2021

Cannon Mountain, NH

Click on a lift’s name for pictures. View in fullscreen↗

liftblog.com

Is that wrong?

 

[cdskier]

For me, "meaningful" vertical is what I find relevant to compare (can't think of a better way to word that). To put it another way, what vertical is the average person at a resort likely to regularly ski on any given day? At K, what percent of people ski from the peak down to Rt 4? Sure people that park at Skyeship likely are doing that. But otherwise do that many people even ski just the full Skyeship vert that often? Yes it can be lapped, but I never really viewed that as a thing a lot of people did at K. Maybe I'm wrong. Doing it once in a while as a novelty to say you skied all the way to the base I can see. But to me I don't care about that. Meanwhile at Whiteface or Mt Ellen (to use the examples previously mentioned), the only way to avoid skiing the full vertical is to not go to the summit at all. If you make it to the summit, you're skiing essentially the full vertical.

 

[zyk]

I don't understand the idea that vert doesn't count if you can't ski it top to bottom in one run. I'm no Killy expert but don't you ski a narrow traverse style trail to ski the full vert? I'd bet that most here would hate the full vert run at Gore. You'd have to skate for god sakes.

Big vert means that you have a better chance of finding good snow on the mountain. To me that is the advantage.

Done full vertical at Gore. No just no. I think I've seen snowboarders crying on the pipeline traverse...

 

[Newpylong]

For me, "meaningful" vertical is what I find relevant to compare (can't think of a better way to word that). To put it another way, what vertical is the average person at a resort likely to regularly ski on any given day? At K, what percent of people ski from the peak down to Rt 4? Sure people that park at Skyeship likely are doing that. But otherwise do that many people even ski just the full Skyeship vert that often? Yes it can be lapped, but I never really viewed that as a thing a lot of people did at K. Maybe I'm wrong. Doing it once in a while as a novelty to say you skied all the way to the base I can see. But to me I don't care about that. Meanwhile at Whiteface or Mt Ellen (to use the examples previously mentioned), the only way to avoid skiing the full vertical is to not go to the summit at all. If you make it to the summit, you're skiing essentially the full vertical.

It's perfectly good logic and I agree but you'd be surprised at how busy the runs down to Route 4 get on a weekend. I don't think people are making run after run down there but it certainly isn't just a novelty. Perhaps for someone who just goes to K to hit the trees and blacks.