Will the Ski Industry Reap the Benefits of the 'All-For-One' Pass or The Real Costs?

[thetrailboss]

So this thread led me to start this thread, about what you think the 'All-For-One' pass is doing to the ski industry? Last year there is little doubt that the promo had an impact. Sales and traffic at the ASC resorts increased dramatically while other operations saw decreases. In this forum alone there was much discussion and trips for such passholders.

In response, ASC has once again issued the same promo and the demand has been almost as high again with much attention drawn to it in here.

As for the impact on the industry, I asked other ski areas in our AZ Challenge about the 'All-For-One,' and some admitted that it has spurred a tighter market for season pass programs, while others simply stated that nothing was changing (and then dropped their pass prices).

So the price of tickets are falling but the demand for better facilities is still present, as is an increase in the cost of energy and labor.

So that leaves me with this question: :-? Is the All-For-One pass a good thing by bringing more people back into the sport, breathing new life into the industry that has been flat if not declining for the past few years? Or, is this just a 'race to the bottom' that is driving ski areas broke, or forcing ski areas to exploit other areas to save costs (such as facilities, labor, etc), and masking the real costs of the sport?

If you were a resort operator, what would you do?

Whether you're an ASC pass holder or not, offer your thoughts and input. :idea:

 

[awf170]

Its awsome... keeps skiiers away from the good ski areas :wink:

 

[ski_adk]

I think the concept is postive because it creates competition, but not necessarily on price. Instead, there seems to be more opportunities for mountians to specialize their ski product...like snow quality and atmosphere. Maybe my favorite mountains are losing a little bit of revenue sources, but they're not going out of business any time soon either. ASC can have their weekend-crowd bumper skiing.

It's like the old saying, there will always be Wal-Marts and J.C. Pennies and Bloomingdales and no matter what the prices, they'll all be successfully comfortable in their niches.

 

[Vortex]

The passes are bringing occasional day skiers.. (Day ticket purchasers) into somewhat regular skiers and riders. BoothCreek started this model of multi location cost effective passes. ASC had followed as well as others. The crowds are not a concern to me the value is there. At $349 I get what I paid for. Early and Late skiing and variety.

 

[ctenidae]

I'd say the pass is good for ASC, and probably has little real effect on other areas.

ASC benefits in several ways- one, $349 now is worth a lot more than $50 spread over 7 weekends when the vast majority of pass holders will probably use them. Plus, with the blackout days, even if you hold a pass you'll still be paying on the high-demand days. For those who use it midweek, it'll get more people in on a Tuesday, which means more food will be sold, more rooms will be rented, etc. If the lifts are turning, anyway, might as well fill the seats. The near term benefit is it gives ASC a lump of cash it can use to pay off some debts, and keep from defaulting on its loans.

I don't think the pass will affect other areas so much becasue most areas that are in the same league as the ASC areas have their own loyal following. Other areas aren't direct competitors- I think most people who are going to Killington are going there, anyway. THere may be a double whammy of forcing lower pass prices and drawing a few skiiers away, but I don't think either effect will be very strong.

 

[skibum1321]

Its awsome... keeps skiiers away from the good ski areas :wink:

Amen...They can have KMart, Mount Slow and Attitrash.

 

[riverc0il]

Its awsome... keeps skiiers away from the good ski areas :wink:

Amen...They can have KMart, Mount Slow and Attitrash.

yea, like awf170 said...
:argue: :lol:

 

[riverc0il]

Other areas aren't direct competitors- I think most people who are going to Killington are going there, anyway.

if this was true, what would be the reason for ASC dropping prices so low? i bet a quick poll here would yield results indicating a lot of people who bought ASC passes previously did not ski at ASC as often as they do now that they have a pass. and if that holds true, than we can reasonablly assume that either people are skiing more days, or more likely, they have taken their business to ASC and away from other areas.

ASC is in competition with other places in the same league. places like mrg, burke, cannon, magic, etc. are likely not in direct competition but may still feel some limited effects. places like triple peaks, stratton, bush, bromley, etc. probably loose a little to ASC, but not likely enough to make them worry much. i think the true loosers with the ASC pass are mid-sized areas closer to home that offer what most people really want: cheaper skiing, good learning programs, less crowds, better snow conditions, etc. places like ragged, tenney, black mountain, gunstock, bolton, etc. are likely losing the family crowd a little. a small gain for ASC but a huge hit for the smaller guys.

however, i think some market forces will return people to those smaller places even if the price tag is a little higher. increasing crowds and traffic leads to deteriorating snow conditions. ASC is known for snow making and grooming, but all the snow making and grooming in the world won't help an open slope scrapped down to the down by 2000 skiers an hour. people will turn away from poor snow conditions, crowding, and long lines in favor of the smaller players once ASC draws in too many people to too few skiable acres to contain them.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

ceative marketing

So the wife and I are watching the Today Show sitting in our room at the Happy Bear Inn on the Kmart access road this morning.

While the hosts are talking there are always people milling around the windows on the street behind them. I have not seen the show in many years but busted out laughing when in the window a guy is dressed up with a ski hat, goggles, the whole works, jumping up and down with a sign advertising the All 4One pass. Now thats creative marketing. :lol:

 

[thetrailboss]

ASC is known for snow making and grooming, but all the snow making and grooming in the world won't help an open slope scrapped down to the down by 2000 skiers an hour. people will turn away from poor snow conditions, crowding, and long lines in favor of the smaller players once ASC draws in too many people to too few skiable acres to contain them.

The sad reality is that they now need more people than they can handle in order to survive.

 

[ctenidae]

Selling passes is cash now, which is what ASC needs more than anything. Low price entices more people to buy, pluc it's a bit of a status symbol among the non-hardcore skiiers. Badge of honor, if you will. Say "We'll be spending the week at Killington" with your teeth clenched, and you'll understand who buy them (is that trait genetic, or do they teach it?)

 

[Vortex]

I'm sending Geoff a pm. He was at the home owners meeting last year and he explaned the goals ASC presented for getting skier visits to a certain level to allow for construction begin and how this relates to the discount passes

 

[RossiSkier]

My wife and I will now go to the hill many times more than we normally would. Now and then we will buy a $7.00 cheeseburger and a $3.00 bottle of water, and I will of course buy a $5.00 beer now and again. Just like the sports stadiums and movie theaters, consessions reap a fortune.

 

[Marc]

As for this benefiting ASC, I'd say that they're doing it a second year indicates that it was at least marginally successful last year. Long term it is hard to say.

Look how successful GM was with their Employee Discount. Now it's over and the strategy failed in the sense that it did not spur buying when the price was raised again away from its artificially low price. A lesson in free market economics perhaps GM?

Ctenidae brought up a good point. The lifts are turning, fill the seats. The ski industry has a strange relationship between overhead, cost and revenue. There is a point where a minimum customer demand forces near maximum overhead to be spent, however once that overhead is spent, the relationship to number of patrons almost flatlines. If anything, the pass raises numbers during off peak hours which should be their main goal anyway.


I doubt the pass makes a noticeable difference to any one other ski area in NE either. From everything I've seen, majority of ASC pass holders were either previous season pass holders to once ASC mountain, or were the occasional weekend skier now turned regular weekend skier, such as myself. Combine that fact that their target population has little overlap with the other ski area's clientele, and there are so many other ski resorts in NE, the effect is probably barely noticeable to any one single area.

The Threedom pass would do much better of course, but that pass was designed as direct competition for the ASC pass anyway.

 

[Vortex]

I think I disagree here a bit. The Threedom pass promted ASC to do something. Not Vise versa. The Day skier market(day ticket buyers) were going to the boothcreek resorts with the Threedom pass and ASC wanted some of that base back, kind of a copy cat approach. IMO
The numbers are all just rumor based, but the 1st year the Threedom pass went on sale ..pass sales went up 4 times. I think they also continued to increase the number of passes sold each year after that. The day skiers were coming to NH with passes. Asc responded with the Attitash SR pass the 1st year followed the next year by the All4one.

 

[Marc]

Well regardless of who was first, the only clear competition either has is only with each other.

That was the main point I was trying to get at, no offense intended towards one or the other.

 

[Vortex]

Cool. I like the 2 compamies slugging it out. They have made it affordable for me to ski 9 mountains.

 

[Marc]

Indeed, much more often than not, competition benefits the consumer.

 

[skibum1321]

Cool. I like the 2 compamies slugging it out. They have made it affordable for me to ski 9 mountains.

Personally I would rather ski 1 good mountain than 9 bad ones...

 

[Vortex]

I really like Loon, Cranmore, Sunday River and Sugarloaf and Killington early and late season terrain keeps me coming back.
If I wanted to ski just one mountain I would. For cost reasons if I could only have 1 it would be Loon cause of its location and I really like it there. I love Sunday River. I just would not be able to go as much.
I'm glad You follow your passion! That is what its all about! On person good mountain is anothers bad.
I guess where I'm going is for less money than Loon's pass 7 years ago I can know ski 9 mountains with 2 passes. Pretty much the same thing for past ASC indvudual mountain pass holders.