How bad have skier visits and business been this year?

[farlep99]

Stowe has been VERY quiet. Lots of business really hurting, so much so that there's going to be a few "locals" nights during the weeks with shops staying open until 9pm & trying to encourage local shopping. A handful of people I know have rental properties & did not rent them out for Xmas-NYE week OR Presidents weekend. That apparently never happens. I hope more businesses don't shut down because of this season. The mountain, obviously, will be just fine

 

[joshua segal]

The only "number" I've seen related to any actual metrics was an equity analyst's estimate that SKIS top-line revenue is likely 50% of what it should be. Equity analysts, however, are often wrong, so who knows if that's true or not. In response/rebuttal to that analyst, SKIS noted they had a very strong 2nd half of January. Anyway, based on what a trainwreck this season has been, however, complete with bad timing around Christmas, MLK, and Presidents Weekend, it wouldn't shock me if the numbers are poor.

Thanks. That's the best info I've seen. As to Peak Resorts, MLK weekend was superb at Crotched Mtn. I assumed it was industry-wide, but based on what you are saying, that must not be true.

 

[Whitey]

Sugarbush today. There are people here. But few were skiing after about 2PM. All were hunkered down in condos or just leaving. Weather is awful. Rain on and off all day, pouring now at about 6PM. I would post a TR but its too depressing to write. Too wet/rainy to even bring out a camera to take pics. Today was actually "OK" with some wet soft snow. But it's hard to see how any of the next few days will be anything short of "disaster".

 

[thetrailboss]

Based on the title of this thread., "How bad have skier visits and business been this year?", I was hoping to see some industry numbers on how the season has been going. Anecdotally, most everyone is saying,"not good." But has anyone seen any skier visit numbers?

I think that the fact that SAM is only really talking about the west coast is a huge indication:

http://www.saminfo.com/news/january-booking-pace-picks-out-west

Though they ran this one today:

http://www.saminfo.com/news/el-nino-follies-early-season-snowmaking-2015

 

[Gforce]

business is way down. Talk to any of the managers or commercial guys at the resorts. Lots of cancellatons this year. Most of the chairs are loaded with season pass holders from what I have observed. Day trippers and casual weekend skier visits seem to be way down. I suspect any mountain with marginal snowmkaing are taking a beating.

Look for Fire-Sale '16/17 season pass sale offers this Spring at some of the NH mountains. Marketers are worried about the pysch of the NE skier and snowboarder.

 

[catskills]

business is way down. Talk to any of the managers or commercial guys at the resorts. Lots of cancellatons this year. Most of the chairs are loaded with season pass holders from what I have observed. Day trippers and casual weekend skier visits seem to be way down. I suspect any mountain with marginal snowmkaing are taking a beating.

Look for Fire-Sale '16/17 season pass sale offers this Spring at some of the NH mountains. Marketers are worried about the pysch of the NE skier and snowboarder.

Gforce has it right. Let me summarize. ALL North East ski areas are totally fxxkxd and will be running in the red. With all the climate change talk, many ski areas may find it difficult to get bank loans. Hey I am just the not PC messenger.

If you enjoy skiing, get out and buy some ski tickets before your favorite mountain closes.

 

[VTKilarney]

Look for Fire-Sale '16/17 season pass sale offers this Spring at some of the NH mountains. Marketers are worried about the pysch of the NE skier and snowboarder.

I'd be surprised to see this. I hope you are right, though.

 

[ss20]

Ski shop owner telling me it's the worst season he's seen. Same source said area mountain revenues are down 30%.

 

[slatham]

Off topic, but are there any bumps at Bromley, Slatham? Last year there were some great ones in the blue ribbon quad area.


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Sorry for late response! Bumps have been lacking, I believe due to less skier traffic due to late season opening for many bump trails (Pabst Panic for instance), lower skier traffic due to weather etc, and more need to groom after thaw/freeze. Plenty of base should we get a dump and/or spring conditions.

 

[dlague]

Heard a great interview of the Mount Snow GM. She was talking about how skier visits have been down. They cancelled all travel by employees and managers have been job sharing to limit overtime. She also said that the media reports of dangerously cold temps kept people away and the lack of snow and ability to open terrain during Christmas break has been something they have had to manage. They also said that snow making generally stops before Presidents Day weekend but they had to make the tough decision to continue since the base is 1 - 2 feet less than what they would like this time of year heading into spring. They are committed to make it into mid April. Also talked about presales as a good way to get people to come since they pay in advance.


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[drjeff]

Heard a great interview of the Mount Snow GM. She was talking about how skier visits have been down. They cancelled all travel by employees and managers have been job sharing to limit overtime. She also said that the media reports of dangerously cold temps kept people away and the lack of snow and ability to open terrain during Christmas break has been something they have had to manage. They also said that snow making generally stops before Presidents Day weekend but they had to make the tough decision to continue since the base is 1 - 2 feet less than what they would like this time of year heading into spring. They are committed to make it into mid April. Also talked about presales as a good way to get people to come since they pay in advance.


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I've known Kelly Pawlak, Mount Snow's GM, for about 10yrs now. She's always been a straight shooter and tells it like it is (in spite of the fact that she started out as a marketing department person :lol: ) Sure there are a few company secrets I'm know she keeps, but in general she is about as honest a person as they come, and frankly runs a great ship, where there is literally no job she won't do on a day to day basis!! You're just as likely to see her scanning tickets or running a lift line or cleaning tables in the cafeteria (or as my wife tells me since I've never personally seen it for obvious reasons, cleaning the women's room ) as you are out on the hill taking a few runs with guests!

She's also a realist, in that after roughly a quarter century in the business, she knows that there will be good seasons, bad seasons, and average seasons. You make changes as the season evolves based on what it evolves into, and always look towards the future as to how you can improve upon where the business is at today - how much capital you have available to make those desired improvements is the yearly variable

 

[BenedictGomez]

Gforce has it right. Let me summarize. ALL North East ski areas are totally fxxkxd and will be running in the red. With all the climate change talk, many ski areas may find it difficult to get bank loans. Hey I am just the not PC messenger.

I can assure you, the bolded is not true.

There are many variables that bulge bracket banks like Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc.. might consider before pulling the trigger on a 2,5, 10 year loan to a ski area, but Global Warming is not one of them.

 

[Domeskier]

I can assure you, the bolded is not true.

There are many variables that bulge bracket banks like Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc.. might consider before pulling the trigger on a 2,5, 10 year loan to a ski area, but Global Warming is not one of them.

For what it is worth, SKIS cites climate change and greenhouse effects in the risk factors section of its 10-K. I doubt it would be a determining factor in the decision to make a loan, but it probably has some marginal impact on rates.

 

[BenedictGomez]

For what it is worth, SKIS cites climate change and greenhouse effects in the risk factors section of its 10-K.

And they're smart to do so. It's dirty-lawyer repellent.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm in Stowe right now. I've never seen the town so quiet on a mid winter Saturday........ever. talking with friends, several several businesses likely won't make it, some through in the towel weeks ago.

 

[ALLSKIING]

I'm in Stowe right now. I've never seen the town so quiet on a mid winter Saturday........ever. talking with friends, several several businesses likely won't make it, some through in the towel weeks ago.

I wonder if people are staying closer to home. Killington has been pretty busy this weekend. Pretty long lift lines and most restaurants had a 40 min wait. I have heard midweek has been dead and business are down from other years.

 

[skibumski]

With no backcountry skiing or even in-bounds woods skiing in play, the sad fact is that Stowe is a long way from population centers for people to get pretty much the same product as they're going to get everywhere else closer. Manmade snow, mostly groomed due to repeated r@!n and blowtorching.

 

[deadheadskier]

Word around town is mountain revenue is down 33% from last year

 

[KustyTheKlown]

With no backcountry skiing or even in-bounds woods skiing in play, the sad fact is that Stowe is a long way from population centers for people to get pretty much the same product as they're going to get everywhere else closer. Manmade snow, mostly groomed due to repeated r@!n and blowtorching.

totally this. by this time in any other season i would have already had stowe and jay days skied.

 

[drjeff]

This is the 2nd weekend in a row, and at most per my recall, the 3rd weekend all season up in the Mount Snow region that I would say that there's at least been a "healthy" number of cars at the various hotels, condos and private residence complexes up here.

Not breaking attendance records on the slopes, but at least if people are up here for a few days, that helps out a bit for the local businesses