ScottySkis
Well-known member
So the OP is going to learn not buy home in NJ, because of taxes he might miss out on the great weekend experience at Mountain Creek now lol.
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Ski NY
- Thread starter gmcunni
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4aprice
Well-known member
All I can say to that is Congrats to Mass. You didn't make the list.
Alex
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
It's pretty good, as long as you don't have to work and pay another 8% of your income in city taxes...
VTKilarney
Well-known member
NJ is also home to arguably the most corrupt teacher's union in the country - and that is not an easy prize to win.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
That's a huge difference.
Put it this way. We have plenty of $430,000 homes (realistic resale value) at $13,000 per year in property taxes. That's insanity. If you're paying 3% of your home's value just in taxes every year, (nevermind the mortgage) you better PRAY home values escalate.
They're still in the financial pooper though.
How this hasn't made it to the Supreme Court is beyond me. The, "So you want to leave New Jersey? We'll CRUSH you if you try" tax, cant possibly be constitutional.
Where it promptly gets wasted, embezzled, skimmed, or handed out to friends and contributors to a certain political party which shall not be mentioned. All in the name of..... "the children". If you disagree, you must hate "the children".
4aprice
Well-known member
They've got some palaces in those SD's. Thank You NJ Supreme Court.
Alex
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
Our rate is 2.5%. I'm fine with the amount of property tax I pay. In fact, I'd rather it would be 3% or just shy of there. That's the increase needed to pay for a new High School, which the town desperately needs. It's been voted down three times in the past decade in part because we have a very small school population for a town of our size. There are not enough voting families to pass it through and/or you've got a large faction of folks waiting for the state to help. Prior to the recession, the state offered aide to communities in need of new schools. That aide has been suspended since 2009. Though all the lottery posters still say how much the proceeds help with education.
I guess it depends if you feel like you're getting good value for your money. I do. The town is well kept from the roads to sidewalks to public spaces. We have adequate police and fire department resources. The drinking water is good. All of these things plus being in a great commuting location with access to good paying job makes me feel as though I'm getting good value for what I pay.
So, while paying 3% property tax may be a problem for you, it isn't for me.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Tax burdens have to be viewed holistically, and as you noted, there are material taxes like income and sales that you don't pay in NH that mitigates the above quite a bit (chiefly the lack of state income tax). New Hampshire is not a typical example, 43 states do have income tax, but 3% is > 100% the national average. Were there talk of installing a typical northeastern income tax of 5% or 6.5%, you'd probably change your tune a bit.
That said, in an area where you have an average 4% mortgage, and a 3% property tax to value on a home is standard, Id' fear for the future of real home values in that particular market. There's only so much juice to squeeze in every lemon. Of course, I fear for the future of home values all over this country, so there's that.....
Smellytele
Well-known member
Our rate is 2.5%. I'm fine with the amount of property tax I pay. In fact, I'd rather it would be 3% or just shy of there. That's the increase needed to pay for a new High School, which the town desperately needs. It's been voted down three times in the past decade in part because we have a very small school population for a town of our size. There are not enough voting families to pass it through and/or you've got a large faction of folks waiting for the state to help. Prior to the recession, the state offered aide to communities in need of new schools. That aide has been suspended since 2009. Though all the lottery posters still say how much the proceeds help with education.
I guess it depends if you feel like you're getting good value for your money. I do. The town is well kept from the roads to sidewalks to public spaces. We have adequate police and fire department resources. The drinking water is good. All of these things plus being in a great commuting location with access to good paying job makes me feel as though I'm getting good value for what I pay.
So, while paying 3% property tax may be a problem for you, it isn't for me.
Mine is 3%
This also depends on your values in what you expect to get out of a home. My folks lost money on every home they've ever owned if you were to compare the home values vs. what that money could have done in other investments. They have a comfortable retirement in Florida in a home that is worth the exact same amount today as when they built it in 2000, so it's essentially worth much less. It did nearly double in value during the housing bubble, so they could have sold it for a hefty profit at one point. And then what? Buy another over-valued property in the same community or relocate away from where they are happy?
My father is a retired investment banker and an extremely staunch fiscal conservative. That said, he never ever looked to real estate as a good investment. The value in his homes to him has always been the shelter the home provides and the memories made under that roof; nothing more.
There's no universal home/community investment formulate that's right for everyone. You pick what's right for you, vote to keep it that way or vote to change it if it's not right for you or move.
Has anyone else noticed we are off topic a bit?
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
This is all true, it's just that I'm approaching the subject strictly from a dollars and cents perspective.
It ran it's course.
There's only so many ways you can say that the Adirondacks offers better skiing than the Catskills.
AdironRider
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DH, which school district are you in?
SAU 16 pushed through the school rebuilds when I was younger. Frankly, those "desperately needed" remodels were done, but then the cost was about doubled for auditoriums fit for colleges at middle schools and the like.
On the home cost front, I think NH has done the right thing and manages their finances (in a general sense) worlds above the surrounding states. For those reason, as well as the lack of sales and income taxes, I feel pretty confident that most NH real estate owners break even after taxes and maintenance.
Do agree though that if you are looking for pure financial return, its still one of the worst investments, but you have to take opportunity costs into account, and with rent being 1k+ for a 1 bedroom in the Seacoast area that isnt a hell hole, you start to make some better gains.
In your example DH, your Dad's other alternative is rent, which it sounds like he never really took into account and swings the return into the positives.
SAU 16 pushed through the school rebuilds when I was younger. Frankly, those "desperately needed" remodels were done, but then the cost was about doubled for auditoriums fit for colleges at middle schools and the like.
On the home cost front, I think NH has done the right thing and manages their finances (in a general sense) worlds above the surrounding states. For those reason, as well as the lack of sales and income taxes, I feel pretty confident that most NH real estate owners break even after taxes and maintenance.
Do agree though that if you are looking for pure financial return, its still one of the worst investments, but you have to take opportunity costs into account, and with rent being 1k+ for a 1 bedroom in the Seacoast area that isnt a hell hole, you start to make some better gains.
In your example DH, your Dad's other alternative is rent, which it sounds like he never really took into account and swings the return into the positives.
SAU 31
I believe Exeter's build and Sanborn were done with some of the funds coming from the state. Exeter if I recall was about a $60M project. That's for 1600 students with I believe an even higher capacity. Newmarkets school was proposed at around $45M and is only half the size. Shows you where the cost of building schools has gone in 8 years.
And when I say the needs are desperate for the school, that's not hyperbole. They have had to close the school for emergency repairs on several occasions in the past few years. Fire Marshall is at the point of not issuing occupancy permits if major investment isn't made, which will address construction issues, but not over-crowding.
I believe Exeter's build and Sanborn were done with some of the funds coming from the state. Exeter if I recall was about a $60M project. That's for 1600 students with I believe an even higher capacity. Newmarkets school was proposed at around $45M and is only half the size. Shows you where the cost of building schools has gone in 8 years.
And when I say the needs are desperate for the school, that's not hyperbole. They have had to close the school for emergency repairs on several occasions in the past few years. Fire Marshall is at the point of not issuing occupancy permits if major investment isn't made, which will address construction issues, but not over-crowding.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Rent has had a negative stigma in this country for far too long.
Historically speaking, rent HAS been the poorer choice in most markets, to the point where if you ask most people, they'll tell you you're "wasting money" by renting, and that home ownership is always a better choice. You "have equity" and own something they'll say. Well, sure, but they're completely disregarding the opportunity cost of those funds, and the new environment of sharply rising property taxes, etc...
Saying that owning a house is always better than renting is akin to saying the Yankees will be one of the best teams in baseball next season, simply because they usually are. I, for one, am betting on US home prices being lower in most markets 6 or 7 years from now than they are today. A contrarian prediction to be sure, but I can back it up with solid logic.
Edd
Well-known member
I've been sharply rebuked quite a few times when I've suggested renting is the better option sometimes. It depends on so many factors. Good post.
AdironRider
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Well I'm referencing NH specifically. There are plenty of scenarios where renting is indeed the right play.
Given the other benefits of NH, namely the lack of sales and income taxes, property holds value.
Now Maine or VT on the other hand, might as well wipe your ass with 20's.
Given the other benefits of NH, namely the lack of sales and income taxes, property holds value.
Now Maine or VT on the other hand, might as well wipe your ass with 20's.
Cannonball
New member
Agree. And NH property taxes aren't as black & white as many people think. There is an assumption that lack of sales and income tax automatically equals extremely high property tax. While that's generally true, it's not across the board. The property tax rate in Lincoln, NH (12.84 per thou) is lower than in many MA towns.
AdironRider
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Lincoln has a lot of commercial property comparatively which helps. They are like Saugus on a New Hampshire scale.
Or I guess Newington would be a better example on the Saugus metaphor.
Or I guess Newington would be a better example on the Saugus metaphor.
AdironRider
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Yeah, that makes sense. Newmarket is a great town on the rebound so its probably for the best.
Not doubting the hyperbole, just giving you warning that its easy for the necessary repairs to snowball. Not going to lie, I enjoyed these incredible facilities growing up in Exeter, but I didn't see much benefit from a middle school auditorium that added millions just to show kids giving a rendition of Bye Bye Birdie.
Exeter was so crowded we had one way traffic in the hallways like herding cattle. This was 20 years ago now, but I can't imagine that being allowed today. Is Newmarket that crowded?
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