What's up with Waterville? Waterville Vs. Loon

Smellytele · Jan 14, 2016

HD333 said:
I agree with the smallness feeling especially coming from Okemo for the last few seasons and there is NO reason to ride the high country lift.

We used to ski WV way back in the day and gave it a shot for a seasonal rental this year. This year the skiing has taken a back seat so far due to weather and we have found the area pretty nice for hiking and have enjoyed the village area.

I am hoping for a big Feb/March.

I do think the condo ownership and ski racing program is what keeps WV in business. The BBTS team is all over the mountain and bars Après.

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Before last weekend they only had 1 way down and heard it was shit show with everyone (BBTS, lessons and whomever else was there). Then last weekend 2 out of 3 skiers were BBTS. As far as the high country that is where the BBTS should stay. No other reason to go up there.

DoublePlanker · Jan 14, 2016

WV skier visits are approx 1/2 what they were back in the 80's. They just haven't improved since that time vs the competition.

The ski area is NOT like Burke terrain at all. The glades are missing. Burke has excellent glades.

The needs more terrain to keep up with Loon and places like Bretton Woods.

Hard to believe that Tenney is going to come back from the dead when this place isn't doing so great.

dlague · Jan 14, 2016

xwhaler said:
Not sure why you considered WV to be the better advanced/expert mtn vs Loon.
Even w/o South Peak the North Peak at Loon>Sunnyside pod at WV IMHO.

WV needs to figure out their identity for sure.

I agree - there is nothing very difficult at WV Bobby's Run while it is not often groomed makes for a nice bump run True Grit has one pitch that gets a little steep but nothing to write home about. The glades between True Grit and Bobby's Run are fun and have some steeper drops towards the top other than that not a huge deal Everything else labeled as black diamond are just good cruisers. I don't mind skiing there one or two times per season.

gregnye · Jan 14, 2016

xwhaler said:
Not sure why you considered WV to be the better advanced/expert mtn vs Loon.
Even w/o South Peak the North Peak at Loon>Sunnyside pod at WV IMHO.

Without the South Peak, the North peak technically only consists of Flume and Walking Boss, which are only single black diamonds. Technically if you count the East Basin as the North Peak, then yes there is angel street, big dipper and triple trouble. All these are single blacks though, and triple trouble is never open.

Meanwhile Waterville has 2 double-blacks (true grit and Bobby's) and gema and ciao (and a few others that are "black" but not as steep so they don't count). So its close, but in terms of steeps Waterville actually beat Loon back before the South Peak and Ripsaw was added.

Waterville needs to realize that they need to push for new trails, but more importantly a better snowmaking system. They need to keep up with Loon. This is important because there are so many people (myself included) that only go to Loon and Waterville when there isn't enough natural snow. Because if there was enough natural, I'd go to Cannon or Wildcat hands down!

xwhaler · Jan 14, 2016

gregnye said:
Without the South Peak, the North peak technically only consists of Flume and Walking Boss, which are only single black diamonds. Technically if you count the East Basin as the North Peak, then yes there is angel street, big dipper and triple trouble. All these are single blacks though, and triple trouble is never open.

Meanwhile Waterville has 2 double-blacks (true grit and Bobby's) and gema and ciao (and a few others that are "black" but not as steep so they don't count). So its close, but in terms of steeps Waterville actually beat Loon back before the South Peak and Ripsaw was added.

Waterville needs to realize that they need to push for new trails, but more importantly a better snowmaking system. They need to keep up with Loon. This is important because there are so many people (myself included) that only go to Loon and Waterville when there isn't enough natural snow. Because if there was enough natural, I'd go to Cannon or Wildcat hands down!

Correct but Loon also has tree skiing on North Peak and Loon Peak. WV has some very limited marked glades off Sunnyside but that is it.

dmw · Jan 14, 2016

I just heard a radio ad on 98.5 for Waterville, they must be monitoring this thread.

Jully · Jan 14, 2016

gregnye said:
Without the South Peak, the North peak technically only consists of Flume and Walking Boss, which are only single black diamonds. Technically if you count the East Basin as the North Peak, then yes there is angel street, big dipper and triple trouble. All these are single blacks though, and triple trouble is never open.

Meanwhile Waterville has 2 double-blacks (true grit and Bobby's) and gema and ciao (and a few others that are "black" but not as steep so they don't count). So its close, but in terms of steeps Waterville actually beat Loon back before the South Peak and Ripsaw was added.

Agree with you about on trail stuff, but the single black v. double black rating is pretty BS between WV and Loon.

Throw in tree skiing though and Loon has always has the advantage over WV.

chuckstah · Jan 14, 2016

For me, what sets North Peak (including east basin, easily lapped by NP quad) ahead of Sunnyside at WV is one, as already mentioned, the trees. Secondly are the 2 natural snow bump runs, Triple Trouble and Big Dipper below Cantdog. These runs never see a groomer, except the short runouts, or snow guns which make them ski much better most of the time, IMO. And in most years they are open about half the season. Lower Flume usually has seeded bumps also, although rock hard more often than not. The high speed lift vs. fixed grip sunnyside doesn't hurt either. I won't get into the sidecountry terrain as I'm not familiar with what's at WV. Years ago when my pass was valid at both mountains Loon was the choice maybe 8 days to one for WV. Not a fan of S. Peak. Seems to almost always be overgroomed and icy.

skiberg · Jan 14, 2016

WV is my least favorite ski area on the planet. I think it is the worst ski are in NH maybe in NE. I honestly think Cranmore is better. The terrain absolutely sucks. The snow sucks. The liftlines suck. The walk up that freakin hill from the parking lot sucks. The lodge sucks. The names of their trails suck. Tippy canoe. Come on. The quad does not go to the Top. That's kind of stupid. The drive from 93 sucks. The "village" is not accessible to the mountain. That was smart. It's worn down dirty and it sucks.

ss20 · Jan 14, 2016

skiberg said:
WV is my least favorite ski area on the planet. I think it is the worst ski are in NH maybe in NE. I honestly think Cranmore is better. The terrain absolutely sucks. The snow sucks. The liftlines suck. The walk up that freakin hill from the parking lot sucks. The lodge sucks. The names of their trails suck. Tippy canoe. Come on. The quad does not go to the Top. That's kind of stupid. The drive from 93 sucks. The "village" is not accessible to the mountain. That was smart. It's worn down dirty and it sucks.

I know a few people from Saddleback that would gladly trade mountains.

Edd · Jan 14, 2016

ss20 said:
I know a few people from Saddleback that would gladly trade mountains.

Uh, I assume by virtue of WV simply being open? Not high praise. Those two hills are as different as can be.

Jully · Jan 14, 2016

skiberg said:
WV is my least favorite ski area on the planet. I think it is the worst ski are in NH maybe in NE. I honestly think Cranmore is better. The terrain absolutely sucks. The snow sucks. The liftlines suck. The walk up that freakin hill from the parking lot sucks. The lodge sucks. The names of their trails suck. Tippy canoe. Come on. The quad does not go to the Top. That's kind of stupid. The drive from 93 sucks. The "village" is not accessible to the mountain. That was smart. It's worn down dirty and it sucks.

The phrase might be "Waterville sucks. Don't go there."

ChicoKat · Jan 14, 2016

We live 15 minutes down 49 from WV and the only thing they see from us is tailights. It is a good intermediate family mountain. The central nature of lodging and the small center of town makes it attractive for the masses. We will ski a Sunday half day when we have drank too much the night before and driving to Cannon or Wildcat is not in the cards!

Cannonball · Jan 14, 2016

gregnye said:
Without the South Peak, the North peak technically only consists of Flume and Walking Boss, which are only single black diamonds. Technically if you count the East Basin as the North Peak, then yes there is angel street, big dipper and triple trouble. All these are single blacks though, and triple trouble is never open.

Meanwhile Waterville has 2 double-blacks (true grit and Bobby's) and gema and ciao (and a few others that are "black" but not as steep so they don't count). So its close, but in terms of steeps Waterville actually beat Loon back before the South Peak and Ripsaw was added.

Waterville needs to realize that they need to push for new trails, but more importantly a better snowmaking system. They need to keep up with Loon. This is important because there are so many people (myself included) that only go to Loon and Waterville when there isn't enough natural snow. Because if there was enough natural, I'd go to Cannon or Wildcat hands down!

I was going to stay out of this thread because I actually like WV for a lot of personal reasons and don't like to bash it (and that seems where this thread is going).
But this has to be the stupidest post I've read in a long time. For starters, are you seriously basing your whole argument on Double-Blacks vs Single-Blacks?? You must think Cannon is a major pu$$y mountain....not any double-blacks there!! True Grit at WV is clearly much harder than Tramline at Cannon based on the rating. What you really need to do for challenge is head up to Bretton Woods where they have FIFTEEN DOUBLE BLACK DIAMOND RUNS!!!

WV has exactly zero difficult terrain. True Grit and Bobby's are wide open, simple fall-line, straight, short, boring trails. WV's best trails are some of their fun windy blues.

WV and Loon are completely different animals. The towns of Waterville and Lincoln are completely different. I agree that WV needs to find itself. But the answer is finding their own niche not by trying to "keep up with Loon". Loon will win that one all day, every day.

Jully · Jan 15, 2016

Cannonball said:
I was going to stay out of this thread because I actually like WV for a lot of personal reasons and don't like to bash it (and that seems where this thread is going).
But this has to be the stupidest post I've read in a long time. For starters, are you seriously basing your whole argument on Double-Blacks vs Single-Blacks?? You must think Cannon is a major pu$$y mountain....not any double-blacks there!! True Grit at WV is clearly much harder than Tramline at Cannon based on the rating. What you really need to do for challenge is head up to Bretton Woods where they have FIFTEEN DOUBLE BLACK DIAMOND RUNS!!!

WV has exactly zero difficult terrain. True Grit and Bobby's are wide open, simple fall-line, straight, short, boring trails. WV's best trails are some of their fun windy blues.

WV and Loon are completely different animals. The towns of Waterville and Lincoln are completely different. I agree that WV needs to find itself. But the answer is finding their own niche not by trying to "keep up with Loon". Loon will win that one all day, every day.

Agreed on many points haha.

Waterville rebranding itself as different from Loon is definitely key to bringing success. It used to be racing + families versus daytripper family, but that is blending together more and more it seems.

SIKSKIER · Jan 15, 2016

skiberg said:
WV is my least favorite ski area on the planet. I think it is the worst ski are in NH maybe in NE. I honestly think Cranmore is better. The terrain absolutely sucks. The snow sucks. The liftlines suck. The walk up that freakin hill from the parking lot sucks. The lodge sucks. The names of their trails suck. Tippy canoe. Come on. The quad does not go to the Top. That's kind of stupid. The drive from 93 sucks. The "village" is not accessible to the mountain. That was smart. It's worn down dirty and it sucks.

There is so much in this post that I agree with and I seem to always start with this..."The walk up that freakin hill from the parking lot sucks".Haha,Tippecanoe.How about Ciao,Gema and of course And Tyler Too.

dlague · Jan 15, 2016

Cannonball said:
I was going to stay out of this thread because I actually like WV for a lot of personal reasons and don't like to bash it (and that seems where this thread is going).
But this has to be the stupidest post I've read in a long time. For starters, are you seriously basing your whole argument on Double-Blacks vs Single-Blacks?? You must think Cannon is a major pu$$y mountain....not any double-blacks there!! True Grit at WV is clearly much harder than Tramline at Cannon based on the rating. What you really need to do for challenge is head up to Bretton Woods where they have FIFTEEN DOUBLE BLACK DIAMOND RUNS!!!

WV has exactly zero difficult terrain. True Grit and Bobby's are wide open, simple fall-line, straight, short, boring trails. WV's best trails are some of their fun windy blues.

WV and Loon are completely different animals. The towns of Waterville and Lincoln are completely different. I agree that WV needs to find itself. But the answer is finding their own niche not by trying to "keep up with Loon". Loon will win that one all day, every day.

Good points! In my case our family does not dislike WV in fact it is a fun place to rip up the runs like BW. We go there if we have cheap lift tickets or comps. Like you say, there just aren't any truly difficult runs. In fact, WV is 2 for 1 on Sundays with The Ride and Ski Card and I cannot even get my family to bite. They would rather go to Cannon.

Speaking of Double Black Diamond labeling. I am not a fan of this. Cannon and Jay Peak do not label trails that way. I get why some mountains do that because they want to keep those people that are really not that good off the more difficult of the more difficult. That being said, some double black labeling is wrong and Waterville is a perfect example as well as Pats Peak to name a couple.

ExtremeRyan · Nov 28, 2016

Loon's snowmaking capacity is much greater than Waterville, if it's cold they can get almost every trail open without the need for natural snow. Loon also as way more glades, both on map and unmarked. This makes Loon a better mountain in my opinion.

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dlague · Nov 28, 2016

ExtremeRyan said:
Loon's snowmaking capacity is much greater than Waterville, if it's cold they can get almost every trail open without the need for natural snow. Loon also as way more glades, both on map and unmarked. This makes Loon a better mountain in my opinion.

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I have not skied Loon but I blindly agree due to size and terrain.

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Los · Jan 9, 2017

bump

I read this thread last night having skied waterville yesterday, really for the first time. I think the comments are unfair and don't give credit where credit is due. Namely, that the intermediate trails on the east side of the mountain (skier's left) are notably more challenging than your average intermediate New England trail. In fact, I'd say that they're more challenging than any of the intermediate trails at Cannon, with the exception of Baron's Run. I might even say more challenging than Wildcat!

Having said that, the advanced trails that we skied were barely more difficult than the intermediate trails, so I can see why WV wouldn't appeal to experts, especially given the lack of glades. STILL, it's a good solid mountain all around with decently challenging terrain, so long as you're not an expert (and I'm making a distinction between advanced and expert...)

What's up with Waterville? Waterville Vs. Loon

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