22 - 23 ski season smashes all time visitation numbers

[cdskier]

Both are important. You can have small number of people skiing a lot. Or large number of people skiing occasionally. I don’t see why one is “more important” than the other.

One may argue one without the other isn’t very useful

Both can be important and yet one can still be more important than the other...

Active participants shows whether there is actual growth in the sport or not (i.e. are we getting new people into the sport). The same number of people skiing more days each isn't true growth (especially if it is more days on a fixed price product like a pass). So pass-holders skiing more days actually dilutes the amount of revenue per skier visit from lift revenue. You can argue that you can make more from ancillary revenue (F&B, rentals, etc)...but that's more variable as not everyone eats on the mountain, etc. Everyone has to have a lift ticket product though... So to say the industry is healthy you ideally want to see an increase in the number of participants. Now of course you also want to see people keep coming back and skiing more than a single day. That's where the skier visits compared to the active participants comes into play to help provide a clearer overall picture.

 

[SLyardsale]

That's precisely why I'm interested in seeing the active participant number.

Epic & Ikon. Less people going more is not great - it seems this might be a nice metric for the Vail & Alterra corporate apologists like Dr.J & Joshua Seagull.

 

[abc]

So to say the industry is healthy you ideally want to see an increase in the number of participants.

I’m not an economist. So I don’t know what a “healthy industry” is defined. Still…

When there’re more activities for people to do, and not a huge population growth, how possibly can it be that each one of those activities have “increase” in number of participation?

Where do the “people” come from? How do they find the time to participate in a new sport every few years???

 

[thetrailboss]

I think he means a more thorough scanning so less people are missed.

RFID technology is now more prevalent.

 

[Tonyr]

It definitely wasn't the worst season for lift lines, the 20/21 season takes that award by a mile. I got 30 days in this season mostly during the holiday weeks and I think I waited 10 minutes plus to get on a lift maybe two handfuls of times. The majority of the time lines were less than 5 minutes long, although the line at Blue Sky Basin this year over President's week was the worst that I have ever seen.

 

[Smellytele]

I think he means a more thorough scanning so less people are missed.

More and more ski areas are scanning every year so you have more days being counted for season pass holders.

 

[Edd]

I’m not an economist. So I don’t know what a “healthy industry” is defined. Still…

When there’re more activities for people to do, and not a huge population growth, how possibly can it be that each one of those activities have “increase” in number of participation?

Where do the “people” come from? How do they find the time to participate in a new sport every few years???

It’s not impossible for skiing to attract new participants. Many people are dormant during the winter, staying home more often so there’re new customers to attract I’m sure.

As stated, it’s unclear if that’s what’s happening.

 

[drjeff]

It definitely wasn't the worst season for lift lines, the 20/21 season takes that award by a mile. I got 30 days in this season mostly during the holiday weeks and I think I waited 10 minutes plus to get on a lift maybe two handfuls of times. The majority of the time lines were less than 5 minutes long, although the line at Blue Sky Basin this year over President's week was the worst that I have ever seen.

Pretty sure 20/21 was totally affected liftline wise by the now (I think we can say was BS - let ABC do a mega eye roll if the current data is too tough to accept vs ideloogy) COVID queue lane spacing and not full chair loading guidelines, than actually volume of tickets sold.

Can say that my industry friends in ski school and the "B" side if F&B have told me that it was a BIG season, and even the "B" side of F&B after some layer season staffing cutbacks at Mount Snow told me that they still did almost "normal" volume with 25-33% less employees, even if it meant they couldn't get their Vail "strongly encouraged" shift breaks to always go to the bathroom or get a quick bite to eat from mid Feb on...

 

[abc]

Pretty sure 20/21 was totally affected liftline wise by the now (I think we can say was BS - let ABC do a mega eye roll if the current data is too tough to accept vs ideloogy) COVID queue lane spacing and not full chair loading guidelines, than actually volume of tickets sold.

You write the way your patients talk while you are in the middle of working on their teeth.

 

[Tonyr]

Pretty sure 20/21 was totally affected liftline wise by the now (I think we can say was BS - let ABC do a mega eye roll if the current data is too tough to accept vs ideloogy) COVID queue lane spacing and not full chair loading guidelines, than actually volume of tickets sold.

Can say that my industry friends in ski school and the "B" side if F&B have told me that it was a BIG season, and even the "B" side of F&B after some layer season staffing cutbacks at Mount Snow told me that they still did almost "normal" volume with 25-33% less employees, even if it meant they couldn't get their Vail "strongly encouraged" shift breaks to always go to the bathroom or get a quick bite to eat from mid Feb on...

100% on the 20/21 season lift lines being ridiculous due to all the covid measures in place. That is exactly why lines were so bad that season even though skier visits were down. It didn't stop us from traveling though.

 

[Former Sunday Rivah Rat]

WFH is a huge driver of the high # of ski days on a pass. My wife and I would not have bought a ski house 2nd home if we both had to go into the office 40 hours a week.

 

[thetrailboss]

Its a Kzone reference.

As in the infamous Disembowler?

 

[Dickc]

As in the infamous Disembowler?

Ahh, you DO get it!

 

[thetrailboss]

Ahh, you DO get it!

Wow, it has been a long time since I have been on K-Zone!

 

[Kingslug20]

Well..I smashed my all time record..all that matters to me...

 

[BenedictGomez]

Could it be possible more people having season passes leads to increased visits but is not correlated to growth of the industry. Because everyone I know who skis/boards has either quit or is getting way more days in due to the prevalence of pass products.

Yes. It's really obvious. They're megaphoning this like skiing is exploding, but the reality is it's the same people all with EPIC or IKON just figuring they may as well ski a few more days since it's "free".

 

[mister moose]

+6% is a 'smash'?

 

[Tonyr]

Well..I smashed my all time record..all that matters to me...

Did you end up getting 100 days?

 

[Kingslug20]

99...I think that's it...

 

[thebigo]

99...I think that's it...

Sitting at 98, ended at 99 last year. Drive to K is getting old, had enough superstar. May mix in an auto road day next weekend to keep it going.