Cathedral brook gone?

[tnt1234]

Looking at the new Belleayre trail map, upper cathedral brook is missing...is that off the map now? No more grooming the hike to?

 

[cdskier]

Looking at the new Belleayre trail map, upper cathedral brook is missing...is that off the map now? No more grooming the hike to?

Ugh...apparently this is listed as an "improvement":

Alpine Trail Improvements


Changes to ski and snowboard trails include allowing a few existing trails, such as Upper Cathedral Brook, to return to forest. Others – Utsayantha and Goat Path – will be modified to both expand intermediate terrain high on the mountain and add snowmaking on those trails.

Also not a fan of Goat Path being widened and having snow-making added nor am I a fan of any changes to Utsayantha. Upper Utsayantha appears to be completely missing from the map as well now...

 

[zyk]

Ugh...apparently this is listed as an "improvement":



Also not a fan of Goat Path being widened and having snow-making added nor am I a fan of any changes to Utsayantha. Upper Utsayantha appears to be completely missing from the map as well now...

The new goat path is strange. Feels like hunter with all the fencing. As for Cathedral Brook is it completely abandoned or just off map?

 

[cdskier]

The new goat path is strange. Feels like hunter with all the fencing. As for Cathedral Brook is it completely abandoned or just off map?

Labelled as officially abandoned in the latest UMP revision for Belleayre and no longer counted in the trail mileage totals. Reading the UMP, it seems like this was done to offset some new nordic trails they were adding. Although they were still over 4 miles below the max allowed trail mileage, so removing Upper Cathedral Brook seems unnecessary.

 

[zyk]

Labelled as officially abandoned in the latest UMP revision for Belleayre and no longer counted in the trail mileage totals. Reading the UMP, it seems like this was done to offset some new nordic trails they were adding. Although they were still over 4 miles below the max allowed trail mileage, so removing Upper Cathedral Brook seems unnecessary.

I always liked that you had to earn it. My wife and I hike but she doesn't ski. First time up to Tuckerman and she got the hiking bug. Something about earning it. Granted we're both old fat and struggle...

If it's clear this year I would hike it.

 

[deadheadskier]

I always have thought NYS "mileage limits" at the state ski areas as a shortsighted policy.

Wasn't this policy developed decades ago? With so many mom and pop ski areas having closed since the policy was made, shouldn't NYS revisit the mileage limits and revise them up to allow for more terrain expansion to make up for the lost areas capacity? Maybe they already do this and I'm just not aware of it.

On a similar subject, I sometimes wonder what the ski industry in the Adirondacks would look like today had it not been preserved as "forever wild" and private ski area development similar to VT had been allowed. I know the Adirondacks get less snow than the Greens, but there still must be dozens of locations within the park that would be suitable for ski areas.

 

[tnt1234]

I always liked that you had to earn it. My wife and I hike but she doesn't ski. First time up to Tuckerman and she got the hiking bug. Something about earning it. Granted we're both old fat and struggle...

If it's clear this year I would hike it.

We'll be able to ski it for a year or tow maybe, but the bramble and saplings will take it over pretty quick.

They didn't mow the tomahawk lift line for a season or two and it became completely unsociable pretty fast.

What a shame. Such a unique little thing...hike to trail in the catskills. Wonder if we voiced disappointment if they would change course.

 

[skiur]

I always have thought NYS "mileage limits" at the state ski areas as a shortsighted policy.

Wasn't this policy developed decades ago? With so many mom and pop ski areas having closed since the policy was made, shouldn't NYS revisit the mileage limits and revise them up to allow for more terrain expansion to make up for the lost areas capacity? Maybe they already do this and I'm just not aware of it.

On a similar subject, I sometimes wonder what the ski industry in the Adirondacks would look like today had it not been preserved as "forever wild" and private ski area development similar to VT had been allowed. I know the Adirondacks get less snow than the Greens, but there still must be dozens of locations within the park that would be suitable for ski areas.

NYS has more ski hills than any other state in the country, doubt that it has the most milage of trails though, lots of short runs in western NY.

 

[zyk]

We'll be able to ski it for a year or tow maybe, but the bramble and saplings will take it over pretty quick.

They didn't mow the tomahawk lift line for a season or two and it became completely unsociable pretty fast.

What a shame. Such a unique little thing...hike to trail in the catskills. Wonder if we voiced disappointment if they would change course.

It is a shame. It was also a snowshoeing route and had a small lean to near the top. Plus at one point there was a glade out beyond it. With the up tick in skier visits a revision to the mileage limits would make sense. There's room for expansion on both the east and west edges.

 

[cdskier]

I always have thought NYS "mileage limits" at the state ski areas as a shortsighted policy.

Wasn't this policy developed decades ago? With so many mom and pop ski areas having closed since the policy was made, shouldn't NYS revisit the mileage limits and revise them up to allow for more terrain expansion to make up for the lost areas capacity? Maybe they already do this and I'm just not aware of it.

On a similar subject, I sometimes wonder what the ski industry in the Adirondacks would look like today had it not been preserved as "forever wild" and private ski area development similar to VT had been allowed. I know the Adirondacks get less snow than the Greens, but there still must be dozens of locations within the park that would be suitable for ski areas.

Yes, the policy was developed decades ago. There have been some slight amendments over the years. For example Belleayre was originally only allowed up to 20 miles but in 1987 it was amended to allow up to 25 miles. Even with some additional trails that are currently proposed/approved in the UMP, they're still only at around 21 of those 25 miles. So I think 25 max is likely more than enough for Belleayre. Looking at the maps in the UMP, I don't really see much in the way of additional locations at Belleayre where they could add additional trails.

And you're right that it would have been interesting if the Adirondacks wasn't preserved as forever wild. There are many peaks that would have made very interesting ski areas.

 

[cdskier]

It is a shame. It was also a snowshoeing route and had a small lean to near the top. Plus at one point there was a glade out beyond it. With the up tick in skier visits a revision to the mileage limits would make sense. There's room for expansion on both the east and west edges.

LOL...I just posted the opposite that I don't think there's room for expansion (beyond what is already proposed/approved which still leaves them about 4 miles of additional unused mileage).

I do agree getting rid of Upper Cathedral Brook is a shame though.

 

[tnt1234]

It is a shame. It was also a snowshoeing route and had a small lean to near the top. Plus at one point there was a glade out beyond it. With the up tick in skier visits a revision to the mileage limits would make sense. There's room for expansion on both the east and west edges.

I skied those glades beyond one year. They were pretty good.

I've also skied the woods skiers left between the first and second cutoff. They were pretty good too, but that was a huge snow year.

 

[PAabe]

A large part of of the appeal of the NYS public ski areas for me was that they were kind of rustic but that is much less the case than it once was with a lot of the changes the past few years. Like the old school trail signs, lots of glades, weird little trails

 

[skimagic]

I thought that C brook was a CCC trail cut before lifts? If so, it should remain.

 

[x10003q]

I always have thought NYS "mileage limits" at the state ski areas as a shortsighted policy.

Wasn't this policy developed decades ago? With so many mom and pop ski areas having closed since the policy was made, shouldn't NYS revisit the mileage limits and revise them up to allow for more terrain expansion to make up for the lost areas capacity? Maybe they already do this and I'm just not aware of it.

On a similar subject, I sometimes wonder what the ski industry in the Adirondacks would look like today had it not been preserved as "forever wild" and private ski area development similar to VT had been allowed. I know the Adirondacks get less snow than the Greens, but there still must be dozens of locations within the park that would be suitable for ski areas.

Adirondack Park was created in 1892. The forever wild came about in 1894. In 1912 NYS codified the rules about the park to include private land. Out of the 6 million acres that make up the Park, about 3.4 million acres of the Park are privately owned. In the 1960s, Hoffman Mountain just north of Schroon Lake was considered as a site for a 3rd ski area in the Park. It was voted down. Another interesting mountain for skiing is Snowy Mtn in Indian Lake about 25 miles west of Gore. It gets more snow than Gore and could have a 2000ft vertical.
Belleayre and Whiteface have 25 mile limits and Gore has a 40 mile limit. The trail width limits have been widened due to safety requirements for ski racing. The mileage limits are stupid limits from decades ago. Gore and Whiteface are zoned for intensive use so expanding the trail mileage would be allowed based on Park zoning. Gore is supposed to add some trails on privately owned land next to the Ski Bowl and those trails are not going to count towards the mileage limit.

It would probably take a NYS constitutional amendment to change the mileage limits at the ski areas. It will probably never happen.

 

[zyk]

Adirondack Park was created in 1892. The forever wild came about in 1894. In 1912 NYS codified the rules about the park to include private land. Out of the 6 million acres that make up the Park, about 3.4 million acres of the Park are privately owned. In the 1960s, Hoffman Mountain just north of Schroon Lake was considered as a site for a 3rd ski area in the Park. It was voted down. Another interesting mountain for skiing is Snowy Mtn in Indian Lake about 25 miles west of Gore. It gets more snow than Gore and could have a 2000ft vertical.
Belleayre and Whiteface have 25 mile limits and Gore has a 40 mile limit. The trail width limits have been widened due to safety requirements for ski racing. The mileage limits are stupid limits from decades ago. Gore and Whiteface are zoned for intensive use so expanding the trail mileage would be allowed based on Park zoning. Gore is supposed to add some trails on privately owned land next to the Ski Bowl and those trails are not going to count towards the mileage limit.

It would probably take a NYS constitutional amendment to change the mileage limits at the ski areas. It will probably never happen.

Great info. Have hiked snowy mtn. Its a good hike.

 

[ThatGuy]

I love that the Adirondacks are “forever wild” I spend most of the summer all over the park and one of the best aspects is that you can look in all directions and see the land as it was for millennia. Also don’t see the demand for more than Gore and Whiteface. Even Stowe is an easier drive from NYC than most of the mountains in the park that another ski area would make sense.