Flu shot: yea or nay

[bvibert]

that's generally how I feel as well

What are people's thoughts on other vaccines, especially for kids? The linking that some researches claim between vaccines and autism gives me pause for when I become a father some day.

Our kids don't get the vaccines.

 

[hammer]

Our kids don't get the vaccines.

Does your school system require vaccines?

My kids have had all of their required shots for school...my son got chicken pox so he didn't need the vaccine when it came out. I know that the vaccines have some risk (albeit small), but the risk of serious problems with the diseases far outweighs any vaccine risk IMO.

When I was in college, we had a breakout of measles one year and chicken pox another year. I had both as a kid so I was immune, but I knew someone who got the chicken pox...and it was not fun for her at all.

 

[bvibert]

I had the chicken pox as a kid. I don't see the big deal at all, certainly nothing that I see as needing vaccine for. I guess it's supposed to be worse if you get it as an adult though.

Our kids aren't in school yet, but there are ways to get exemption from the vaccines...

 

[drjeff]

I had the chicken pox as a kid. I don't see the big deal at all, certainly nothing that I see as needing vaccine for. I guess it's supposed to be worse if you get it as an adult though.

Our kids aren't in school yet, but there are ways to get exemption from the vaccines...

You'll be real popular if and when your kids get measels Especially since for the first time since widespread childhood vaccinations for Mumps, Measels and Rubela - the common MMR childhood vaccine - started decades ago, there has been a significant rise in the numbers of childhood cases of the diseases in the last couple of years which is 100% attributable to parental choice not to vaccinate their kids.

Just remember ALL the respected real research out there has unequivocally shown that there is NO LINK between childhood vaccines and Autism(the fear that is behind most of the non vaccinated kids nowadays). The stabilizing compound that some speculated could be an autism trigger, thimerosol, which contains trace amounts of Mercury in it, hasn't been used in vaccines in over a decade. It's a simple, safe vaccination course that has unequivocally shown phenomenal public health benefits for decades now.

 

[Greg]

A former co-worker of mine was ultra OCD and always going to the restroom to wash his hands. After washing his hands, he would use the paper towel he dried his hands with to open the door. I never knew any one that was sick more often than he was, and he was a young and fit guy in his 20s. Some scientists have proposed that ultra clean and incessant hand washing actually predisposes the body to getting sick more often because teh immune system can not build up tolerances. Not saying that hand washing is bad of course, good to clean the petri dish at regular intervals throughout the day. But the obsession not to get sick seems counter productive to me. I usually get a minor cold between the seasons changing twice per year.

I'm not OCD about it at all. But I do wash my hands a few times a day. I work on various people's computers. Imagine all the crap on their keyboards. I'm good for only a couple colds a year and that's about it. Maybe a stomach thing or two. With two little kids who are germ factories, I've built up quite the resistance. :lol:

No flu shot for me. Never had one. The kids usually get one based on the pediatrician's recommendation.

 

[wa-loaf]

They offer them through work, so I get one every year. It's pretty much required this year so my wife doesn't pick anything up she shouldn't.

 

[severine]

On the topic of the flu shot:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/10/31/flu.hm.flu.shot/
There is still the type preserved with thimerosal. But it's also considered not all that effective. I got the flu shot once because I am considered high risk (I have asthma and I was pregnant at the time). But now that I know more about vaccinations, I will not again.

You'll be real popular if and when your kids get measels Especially since for the first time since widespread childhood vaccinations for Mumps, Measels and Rubela - the common MMR childhood vaccine - started decades ago, there has been a significant rise in the numbers of childhood cases of the diseases in the last couple of years which is 100% attributable to parental choice not to vaccinate their kids.

Just remember ALL the respected real research out there has unequivocally shown that there is NO LINK between childhood vaccines and Autism(the fear that is behind most of the non vaccinated kids nowadays). The stabilizing compound that some speculated could be an autism trigger, thimerosol, which contains trace amounts of Mercury in it, hasn't been used in vaccines in over a decade. It's a simple, safe vaccination course that has unequivocally shown phenomenal public health benefits for decades now.

It's not necessarily the autism link (and once you've talked to someone whose child was in that small % minority who was damaged after receiving the MMR shot, you'll understand why there is an opposition out there who question these findings). It's the other contaminants that get into vaccines that are suspect. Bovine viruses, cancer cells, formaldehyde, components of Windex, fetal cells... the list goes on. There were actually a few recalls last year for vaccines, which was a first I've seen. It's my job to not injure my children and make sure nobody else injures them; injected them with known pathogens does not seem like the right way to carry out my job.

(ETA to add CDC list of some of these contaminants: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-1.pdf )

It's not cut and dry, there is no black and white, and it is not an easy decision either way. But in our case, we felt the risks outweighed the benefits. And yes, there are exemptions in every state of the US. You just have to have the proper documentation to support why.

 

[drjeff]

On the topic of the flu shot:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/10/31/flu.hm.flu.shot/
There is still the type preserved with thimerosal. But it's also considered not all that effective. I got the flu shot once because I am considered high risk (I have asthma and I was pregnant at the time). But now that I know more about vaccinations, I will not again.

It's not necessarily the autism link (and once you've talked to someone whose child was in that small % minority who was damaged after receiving the MMR shot, you'll understand why there is an opposition out there who question these findings). It's the other contaminants that get into vaccines that are suspect. Bovine viruses, cancer cells, formaldehyde, components of Windex, fetal cells... the list goes on. There were actually a few recalls last year for vaccines, which was a first I've seen. It's my job to not injure my children and make sure nobody else injures them; injected them with known pathogens does not seem like the right way to carry out my job.

It's not cut and dry, there is no black and white, and it is not an easy decision either way. But in our case, we felt the risks outweighed the benefits. And yes, there are exemptions in every state of the US. You just have to have the proper documentation to support why.

Are you and Brian immunized for MMR???

I don't mean to play devil's advocate, but this is no if ands or buts a public health issue. Up until the last few years, the vaccination regime that children commonly go through essentially CURED those diseases. And now in the last few years, they're starting to come back IMHO, I wouldn't be suprised at all if many public and private schools start mandating vaccination for admission in the not to distant future purely for public health issues.

Heck, I've got my kids vaccinated for MMR, Chicken Pox, yearly for Flu, on Fluoride supplements and when she's old enough, my daughter is sure going to get a dose of guardasil. It just makes a heck of alot of sense to me and my wife from a public health standpoint to do all of this, and we've had lengthy conversations with our pediatrician about this, as he's a good friend of ours. I literally asked him on the topic of vaccines, "what are your kids vaccinated for" and his reply was "everything!" That along with reading the peer reviewed literature was more than enough for us when looking at the risk factors.

 

[severine]

Are you and Brian immunized for MMR???

I don't mean to play devil's advocate, but this is no if ands or buts a public health issue. Up until the last few years, the vaccination regime that children commonly go through essentially CURED those diseases. And now in the last few years, they're starting to come back IMHO, I wouldn't be suprised at all if many public and private schools start mandating vaccination for admission in the not to distant future purely for public health issues.

Heck, I've got my kids vaccinated for MMR, Chicken Pox, yearly for Flu, on Fluoride supplements and when she's old enough, my daughter is sure going to get a dose of guardasil. It just makes a heck of alot of sense to me and my wife from a public health standpoint to do all of this, and we've had lengthy conversations with our pediatrician about this, as he's a good friend of ours. I literally asked him on the topic of vaccines, "what are your kids vaccinated for" and his reply was "everything!" That along with reading the peer reviewed literature was more than enough for us when looking at the risk factors.

I'm not going to get into a debate here on childhood vaccinations. It gets ugly, just like politics and religion. It was an informed decision discussed thoroughly with our pediatricians, not a flippant thing. It's something I reconsider and think on often throughout the year. Weighing the risks -vs- benefits.

Yes, I was fully vaccinated. In a time when they weren't adding vaccines for every little thing, like chicken pox. By parents who followed what they were told and didn't question anything. They were happy little sheep.

Don't get me started on Gardasil, which is already damaging girls and has not been proven safe, IMHO. Besides the fact that it only protects against 4 strains of HPV, and so to call it the cervical cancer vaccine is a complete BS story since it's still entirely possible to get cervical cancer even with the vax. (Just like you can still get the flu with the flu vax....)

 

[Beetlenut]

You'll be real popular if and when your kids get measels Especially since for the first time since widespread childhood vaccinations for Mumps, Measels and Rubela - the common MMR childhood vaccine - started decades ago, there has been a significant rise in the numbers of childhood cases of the diseases in the last couple of years which is 100% attributable to parental choice not to vaccinate their kids.

Just remember ALL the respected real research out there has unequivocally shown that there is NO LINK between childhood vaccines and Autism(the fear that is behind most of the non vaccinated kids nowadays). The stabilizing compound that some speculated could be an autism trigger, thimerosol, which contains trace amounts of Mercury in it, hasn't been used in vaccines in over a decade. It's a simple, safe vaccination course that has unequivocally shown phenomenal public health benefits for decades now.

There are state exemptions for vaccines in every state. Exemption due to religious beliefs, family history of bad reactions to previous vaccines, etc... Most of the respected real research out there was funded by the Pharmaceutical companies, or done by labs and universities with huge grants from said Pharmaceutical companies. The Pharmaceutical lobbyists are some of the most powerful, well funded lobbyists in the country. While it is true that one of the stabilizing compounds, thimersol has finally been removed from vaccines, the supply of vaccines still containing this compound have not been used up yet, and will continue to be used until their stock is used up! There are other compounds like Formaldehyde that are still used in their production.

Another factor to consider is genetic predisposition to certain vaccines and their stabilizing compounds. Since there is no genetic testing to tell if your child may have problems with the vaccine itself, or all the stabilizers they use, you're gambling with your child's future to not get as informed as you can. It's your child and your choice! There are sites out there that give good information like http://www.vran.org/ , http://www.gval.com/ and http://www.know-vaccines.org/controversy.html.

There was a lawsuit won against a Pharmaceutical company a while back by a Doctor and his Lawyer wife, who's normal healthy child became autistic after a routine vaccination. Do a Google search on vaccinations and you'll be shocked at what you find! I don't fault any medical professionals who view vaccines as safe, as that is the koolaid they had to drink to join that club, but any type of independent research or investigation will result in serious inconsistencies between what is taught in medical schools and what is really taking place in the real world.

My two children (5 and 11) are not vaccinated. Both are in school and doing fine. My older son has a full Autism diagnosis by the state of Rhode Island. This was due, we believe, from the congenital Lyme disease he contracted while in utero. Through a lot of research and many many bad doctors, we have turned him around. Even though he is on a very restricted diet, he is indistinguishable from his peers. Had we choose to vaccinate him, given his history, we have no doubts we would have forever lost him. Moral of the story, do your own research, come to your own conclusions, your children future depends on it.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm not going to get into a debate here on childhood vaccinations. It gets ugly, just like politics and religion.

Who opened up this can of worms anyway :dunce:


oh yeah, me :lol:


....I view the choice of whether or not to vaccinate a child as highly personal.....definitely in a similar category as religion, politics, sexuality etc.

I'm not surprised at the varying opinions on here.

 

[Moe Ghoul]

It seems like the majority of young adults 20's-40's don't get one, which jives with the recommendation that old folks, kids and folks with compromised immune systems/bronchial issues should get one. It was only a few years ago that SARS was a huge scare. I haven't heard much about it lately, and I haven't seen any warnings about this coming flu season. I'm wondering if someone like DMC gets one with all the international and airline travel he does. I might skip it this year. I got pretty sick a few weeks after I got my shot last year after attending a rally in November and it took about 6 weeks to kick it. Mostly chest congestion that I took antibiotics for. Before that, I haven't had more than a stuffy nose for the past 15 years.

 

[Beetlenut]

It seems like the majority of young adults 20's-40's don't get one, which jives with the recommendation that old folks, kids and folks with compromised immune systems/bronchial issues should get one. It was only a few years ago that SARS was a huge scare. I haven't heard much about it lately, and I haven't seen any warnings about this coming flu season. I'm wondering if someone like DMC gets one with all the international and airline travel he does. I might skip it this year. I got pretty sick a few weeks after I got my shot last year after attending a rally in November and it took about 6 weeks to kick it. Mostly chest congestion that I took antibiotics for. Before that, I haven't had more than a stuffy nose for the past 15 years.

Never get one! The problem I see with Flu vaccines is that they're based on a certain strain of Flu. There are many strains of Flu, and with the rates of mutation, the chance of getting the right vaccination for the strain of Flu you might come in contact with are very low, not to mention the preservatives they use like thimerosal and aluminum. Not much upside verses a whole lot of downside.

 

[billski]

thats exactly what i am afraid of

I hear that at any point in time there are roughly 120 flu-like viruses floating around the USA. The "shot" protects you again the 1, 2 or maybe 3 viruses they THINK will be big each year. One of the other 117 got you, note the ones you were immunized against (unless of course you had an immediate outbreak). STATISTICIANS OF THE WORLD UNITE!

I wish it would snow soon so we could get onto more important matters...

 

[drjeff]

Don't get me started on Gardasil, which is already damaging girls and has not been proven safe, IMHO. Besides the fact that it only protects against 4 strains of HPV, and so to call it the cervical cancer vaccine is a complete BS story since it's still entirely possible to get cervical cancer even with the vax. (Just like you can still get the flu with the flu vax....)

Yup, and those 4 strains of HPV(6,11,16 and 18) are responsible for almost 90% of the cases of cervical cancer. With the most common side effects being the standards for essentially any vaccine, irritation at injection site, rash at injection site, nausea, vomitting, fainting and allergic reaction. As for the efficacy, heck even condoms fail, but if as a parent, I can do something to potentially greatly reduce the risk of a possible cancerous side effect that can occur to even the most sexually educated hormone enraged teenage/twentysomething female(fortunately GSS will be in his late 40's when my daughter hits her 20's ) via 3 injections over 6 months when she's roughly 10, I'm all for that.

Bottomline, before a US drug company can gain FDA approval for a drug, they've spent literally 100's of millions of dollars and years of research, and roughly only 1 out of 10 drugs that pharmaceutical companies work through the entire R and D process and through FDA trials and acceptance will actually make it to the marketplace. A drug compnay knowingly WON'T market a drug to recoup R + D costs that could potentially expose themselves to even larger court settlement costs. Also, we greatly benefit from living inthe US and being under the watchful eye of the FDA, whose standards for bringing a drug to market are about the strictest in the world, and hence why our drug costs are more than in other countries, where the approval process isn't as strict or as costly.

 

[Beetlenut]

.... Also, we greatly benefit from living inthe US and being under the watchful eye of the FDA, whose standards for bringing a drug to market are about the strictest in the world, and hence why our drug costs are more than in other countries, where the approval process isn't as strict or as costly.

That's not the FDA that I've come to know. For example, "Scientific discourse is strongly discouraged when it may jeopardize an approval. . . . Whenever safety or efficacy concerns are raised on scientific grounds . . . these concerns are not taken seriously.First class scientists are leaving the FDA, and recruiting new ones will be very difficult." - http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/abuses_of_science/summary-of-the-fda-scientist.html or how about, "the FDA lost 600 inspectors in the past four years, making the agency unable to protect the country's food supply" - http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=3947922 two sides to the same coin!

 

[gorgonzola]

Everyone in our family usually gets one - my middle child is a heart transplant recipient and has a comprimised immune system. Except her of course, and she only recieved vaccinations that don't have "live" viruses - but don'task which those were. With all medical (and most other life) decisions each person must analyze and base decisions on risk/reward...this year our local hospital is doing drive through flu shots!

 

[deadheadskier]

Yup, and those 4 strains of HPV(6,11,16 and 18) are responsible for almost 90% of the cases of cervical cancer. With the most common side effects being the standards for essentially any vaccine, irritation at injection site, rash at injection site, nausea, vomitting, fainting and allergic reaction. As for the efficacy, heck even condoms fail, but if as a parent, I can do something to potentially greatly reduce the risk of a possible cancerous side effect that can occur to even the most sexually educated hormone enraged teenage/twentysomething female(fortunately GSS will be in his late 40's when my daughter hits her 20's ) via 3 injections over 6 months when she's roughly 10, I'm all for that.

Yeah, but wouldn't a shotgun prominently displayed above the fire place in the living room be an equally effective deterrent? :lol:

 

[Hawkshot99]

I had chicken pox when I was a kid. My parents found out that my neighbor had it, and they took me over to play with him. Got me nice and sick, and I have been good ever since.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

. As for the efficacy, heck even condoms fail, but if as a parent, I can do something to potentially greatly reduce the risk of a possible cancerous side effect that can occur to even the most sexually educated hormone enraged teenage/twentysomething female(fortunately GSS will be in his late 40's when my daughter hits her 20's ) via 3 injections over 6 months when she's roughly 10, I'm all for that.

QUOTE]


How did I get into this..lol