Foreward flex

[Greg]

I've been thinking about this for a while. I think my boots might be a tad too stiff and not allowing for enough forward flex as I should have. I'm currently in Nordica Speed Machine 12s and I like the fit, but in videos I've watched, it seems I stay pretty much over the center of the ski no matter how much shin pressure I try to get. It's probably more operator error than anything else, but is there a way to get more forward flex out of the Speed Machines? The boot is always set on soft and I like the fit overall. Are there any safe modifications one can do to the shell to allow it to flex more?

 

[marcski]

Are there any safe modifications one can do to the shell to allow it to flex more?

Ride that bike more and work your quads.

I ski on the speed machines and love them as well. I think they're a great all-mtn boot. I think if you're going to be the mogul whore we all know you're becoming, [ ] perhaps a mogul specific soft boot might do you better?

 

[Greg]

Ride that bike more and work your quads.

I ski on the speed machines and love them as well. I think they're a great all-mtn boot. I think if you're going to be the mogul whore we all know you're becoming, [ ] perhaps a mogul specific soft boot might do you better?

Ha. You're probably right. These stick-like excuses for legs probably could use some help... :lol:

 

[wa-loaf]

I've been thinking about this for a while. I think my boots might be a tad too stiff and not allowing for enough forward flex as I should have. I'm currently in Nordica Speed Machine 12s and I like the fit, but in videos I've watched, it seems I stay pretty much over the center of the ski no matter how much shin pressure I try to get. It's probably more operator error than anything else, but is there a way to get more forward flex out of the Speed Machines? The boot is always set on soft and I like the fit overall. Are there any safe modifications one can do to the shell to allow it to flex more?

If you think they are too stiff for you, you can have a bootfitter cut some of the material from the cuff to soften it up.

 

[jack97]

heel lifts to get some foward lean... it might add hot spots in the ankle area.

dunno what can be done to the shell, if you want to stick with them, I agree with wa loaf and take them to a boot fitter, they might know how to make some adjustments.

 

[wa-loaf]

heel lifts to get some foward lean... it might add hot spots in the ankle area.

dunno what can be done to the shell, if you want to stick with them, I agree with wa loaf and take them to a boot fitter, they might know how to make some adjustments.

The speed machines have an adjustable spoiler have you set as far forward as possible, that will give you more forward lean. Won't help much with the flex though.

 

[jack97]

I ski on the speed machines and love them as well. I think they're a great all-mtn boot. I think if you're going to be the mogul whore we all know you're becoming, [ ] perhaps a mogul specific soft boot might do you better?

From what I have gather, back in the day, the flexon comp was used by wc racers and bumpers. The cabrio design provides lateral stiffness along with the better forward flex. Setting aside the mogul whores, it might be a great all mnt boot as well.

 

[mondeo]

Love my Kryptons, but I do have the stiff tongue in them, putting em in the 140 range. My impression going from a flexy upright boot to a stiff, more forward leaned boot, is that it isn't the flex that matters so much as it is the forward lean. If you get more forward lean in the boot, it'll naturally bring your hips farther forward when you're standing proud, which will do the work of keeping pressure on the shin for you. With the Kryptons I was actually able to break my habit of being bent over in an attempt to keep my weight forward. I like to keep the boot stiffer because it feels more responsive. Remember, all you're trying to do is keep forward pressure, not put the weight as far forward as possible. A stiffer boot/tongue lets you get a better feel for when you've got pressure on the tongue without having to overdo it. The whole soft/medium boot for bumps thing I think is just the fact that most non-bumpers equate moguls to a lot of banging around. Stiff works great if you're doing it right (not that I am, of course.)

And the cabrio design eliminates all boot bash. Definitely, for your next pair, get the Kryptons or Full Tilts.

 

[JimG.]

I've said it before...I think most folks ski in boots that are too stiff fore and aft.

Any good alpine ski boot will be very stiff laterally...that's good.

But I much prefer a boot that is soft fore and aft. Especially in bumps.

It's why I use AT boots (that are admittedly very stiff for AT boots but still much softer than a typical alpine boot).

 

[jack97]

And the cabrio design eliminates all boot bash. Definitely, for your next pair, get the Kryptons or Full Tilts.

It looks like both have shims for the heel wedge to get forward lean, the krypton has two different size shims for adjustment. The full tilts only has one size shim, but I read that some have alter that shim to get more lean.

 

[bigbog]

....doesn't sound wacko to me...

The old pre-season "tuning up the body" only helps!
From what I read...you, like myself, are using neither the stiffest nor the heaviest ski(s), so why not try going to a little softer and/or lighter Fflex. Most all good boots these days are pretty stiff laterally.
I might wait till fall/tail end of your pre-season routine before even putting a boot on...keep the 12s as they are and try to find some 10s or something that's a little softer, then just see how it goes...cause it's not a 180deg change....(I don't Think).

$.01
Steve

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

After 4 years in lange boots..I enjoy being in a softer Atomic recreational boot..ideal for me would be something in the middle of the spectrum..

 

[drjeff]

After 4 years in lange boots..I enjoy being in a softer Atomic recreational boot..ideal for me would be something in the middle of the spectrum..

Man, I've been a lange guy (generally race boot model) for almost 25 years now. I don't know what my feet would do if I tried to put anything else but a lange on them, as my foot shape is pretty much tailor made for a lange. Typically when it's time for a new pair, it's just grab whatever model I want in a size 10.5 shell, get a new pair of footbeds made and that's it. No need for any shell stretching/toebox blowout etc. Just insert a new pair of footbeds, buckle them up and I've got very comfortable feet and great, predictable performance from the 1st turn

Let see over the years, I've had the orange ones, the yellow ones, the pink ones, the teal ones, and the royal blue ones. I'm likely due for a new pair this season as the current ones are over 225 days used and there is DEFINATELY some liner packing that's occurred

 

[Beetlenut]

I've been thinking about this for a while. I think my boots might be a tad too stiff and not allowing for enough forward flex as I should have. I'm currently in Nordica Speed Machine 12s and I like the fit, but in videos I've watched, it seems I stay pretty much over the center of the ski no matter how much shin pressure I try to get. It's probably more operator error than anything else, but is there a way to get more forward flex out of the Speed Machines? The boot is always set on soft and I like the fit overall. Are there any safe modifications one can do to the shell to allow it to flex more?

That's why I went to a Rossi Soft boot! Very stif laterally, but I can lean or crouch forward as far as I want. Helps me keep pressure on the tongue. Also have a heal lift under my footbeds.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Man, I've been a lange guy (generally race boot model) for almost 25 years now. I don't know what my feet would do if I tried to put anything else but a lange on them, as my foot shape is pretty much tailor made for a lange. Typically when it's time for a new pair, it's just grab whatever model I want in a size 10.5 shell, get a new pair of footbeds made and that's it. No need for any shell stretching/toebox blowout etc. Just insert a new pair of footbeds, buckle them up and I've got very comfortable feet and great, predictable performance from the 1st turn

Let see over the years, I've had the orange ones, the yellow ones, the pink ones, the teal ones, and the royal blue ones. I'm likely due for a new pair this season as the current ones are over 225 days used and there is DEFINATELY some liner packing that's occurred

Back in 2003..when I was living in Montana..I bought a pair of size 10 Lange L10s for $70 from a buddy of mine who worked at a ski shop. I skied on them for 4 seasons and 300+ days..and they were snug for sure. I would still be using them but the toe and heel pieces are really warped. My Atomic boots were only $200 and I bought them as a one season boot...as I didn't want to invest the time and money into really steezy boots..I'm going to try out the Full Tilts in the fall..alot of people rave about them..

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

You might like these Greg, Supercharger Ignition. Softer then the Sms (Flex 90/80) you're in now, but a similar fit (same last 100). Freeride/park type of boot, but nice all over the mountain. This years model is black and white. It has a hard/soft flex adjuster and the Booster Strap is nice to have.

 

[kcyanks1]

I have also wondered for years whether I actually ever flex my boot. I think it's a pretty stiff boot. Brand is Dolomite, I'm pretty sure, but I don't know the model off hand and am not at home. I've had them for about 6 seasons so far. I was planning on getting new boots when I got my skis this year, but after witnessing the torture of others in uncomfortable boots, I figured I might as well stick with the boots that don't cause me immense pain. I do wonder though whether I really use them properly. I guess I manage and have fun though

 

[Greg]

You might like these Greg, Supercharger Ignition. Softer then the Sms (Flex 90/80) you're in now, but a similar fit (same last 100). Freeride/park type of boot, but nice all over the mountain. This years model is black and white. It has a hard/soft flex adjuster and the Booster Strap is nice to have.

Very cool. Might just have to look into that!

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

Adding heel lifts and increasing the forward lean aren't the most effective methods for increasing your boot flex. A heel lift will change the ramp angle and help you get your center of mass further forward...it will increase the pressure on the ball of your foot but it won't give you a trenendous mechanical advantage over the boot. Increasing the forward lean will place you in a more aggressive position but won't allow you to flex the boot any more...and it also reduces your range of motion. Take them to a reputable boot fitter....the lower shell can be cut/ground to soften the flex...but you don't want to do it at home or have any old hack do it.

 

[jack97]

Adding heel lifts and increasing the forward lean aren't the most effective methods for increasing your boot flex. A heel lift will change the ramp angle and help you get your center of mass further forward...it will increase the pressure on the ball of your foot but it won't give you a trenendous mechanical advantage over the boot.

Yup... however another consideration for a mogul whore like me is absorption range. The heel lift does increase ramp angle and that's a big plus for using all of the legs to absorb on the front side of the bump. The basic restriction is equivalent to squatting while flat footed, kind of hard to do for most people. Increasing the ramp angle allows one to squat further down while maintaining balance. Ron Lemaster outlines this consideration in his book, to judge whether your boots have good forward lean and ramp angle he suggest wearing them and squat down as low as you can go without losing balance. His criteria for good enuf is upper legs parallel to the floor without losing balance. Personally, I'm happy with going lower into a full squat. How this relates to the bumps is if the boot doesn't have the forward lean; hinging (meaning collapsing the back forward) during the absorption is usually the result along with hunching over the back to get that cm over the front when making the turns. Having said this, it doesn't mean all is to be blame on the equipment, some could be blame on the driver's side.

Increasing the forward lean will place you in a more aggressive position but won't allow you to flex the boot any more...and it also reduces your range of motion. Take them to a reputable boot fitter....the lower shell can be cut/ground to soften the flex...but you don't want to do it at home or have any old hack do it.

Yup (again), thats another consideration, flex range. My old boots was set on the softest flex but I could not get it to flex any further, it hits the "wall" at a certain point. It seems thats the typical restriction on most conventional design (meaning non cabrio designs).