Subaru to Buy Hummer

[ski_resort_observer]

You made a broad statement, which I clarified:

That statement, to me, encompasses all the Hummer's, including the H1.

Yes, Arnold Schwarzenegger campaigned for the civilian version.

I'm just referring to the H1, not too familar with the H2.

A few years ago when I lived in Maine my neighbor bought the H3 and I was over there one day checking it out. Personally I thought it was a totally useless vehicle. On the first page of the owners manual it says in big letters, Not recommended for Towing. It's built on a GM Coloradan truck platform. So no power, not AWD or 4WD. I asked my neighbor what possessed him to buy it and his honest answer."it impresses his real estate clients".

 

[Johnskiismore]

This is the first time today going onto AZ, my eyes almost fell out of my head when I saw the title of this thread! You got me!!

 

[koreshot]

I asked my neighbor what possessed him to buy it and his honest answer."it impresses his real estate clients".

How sad is that? The H3 is indeed pointless.

As an avid SUV and truck hater, I am pretty excited about GM downsizing in hopes that a good portion of their big cars will be eliminated. I am sure they will still keep enough around for the folks who actually need them, the rest of the bandwagoners can go buy reasonably sized cars.

 

[deadheadskier]

Lots of talk about diesel being more expensive than unleaded in this thread. That hasn't been the case lately around me with the latest run up in unleaded prices. Last I checked, diesel was about 10 cents cheaper a gallon than 87 octane.

 

[andyzee]

Know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna get myself a 1967 Cadillac El Dorado
Convertible, hot pink, with whaleskin hubcaps and all-leather cow
interior and big brown baby seal eyes for headlights... yeah! And I'm
gonna drive around in that baby at 115 miles per hour, getting 1 mile
per gallon, suckin' down quarter pound cheeseburgers from McDonald's
in the old-fashioned non-biodegradable styrofoam containers and when
I'm done suckin' down those greaseball burgers I'm gonna wipe my mouth
on the American Flag and then I'm gonna toss the styrofoam containers
right out the side, and there ain't a goddamn thing anybody can
do about it. You know why? Because we got the bombs, that's why Two
words: Nuclear efin weapons, OK? Russia, Germany, Romania, they
can have all the democracy they want...they can have a big democracy
cakewalk right through the middle of Tienamen Square and it won't make
a lick of difference, because we got the bombs, OK? John Wayne's not
dead, he's frozen! And as soon as we find a cure for cancer, we're
gonna thaw out the Duke and he's gonna be pretty pissed off. You know
why? Have you ever taken a cold shower? Well, multiply that by 15
million times, that's how pissed off the Duke's gonna be.
I'm gonna get the Duke and John Casavetti and Lee Marvin.............................

 

[RootDKJ]

Know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna get myself a 1967 Cadillac El Dorado
Convertible, hot pink, with whaleskin hubcaps and all-leather cow
interior and big brown baby seal eyes for headlights... yeah! And I'm
gonna drive around in that baby at 115 miles per hour, getting 1 mile
per gallon, suckin' down quarter pound cheeseburgers from McDonald's
in the old-fashioned non-biodegradable styrofoam containers and when
I'm done suckin' down those greaseball burgers I'm gonna wipe my mouth
on the American Flag and then I'm gonna toss the styrofoam containers
right out the side, and there ain't a goddamn thing anybody can
do about it. You know why? Because we got the bombs, that's why Two
words: Nuclear efin weapons, OK? Russia, Germany, Romania, they
can have all the democracy they want...they can have a big democracy
cakewalk right through the middle of Tienamen Square and it won't make
a lick of difference, because we got the bombs, OK? John Wayne's not
dead, he's frozen! And as soon as we find a cure for cancer, we're
gonna thaw out the Duke and he's gonna be pretty pissed off. You know
why? Have you ever taken a cold shower? Well, multiply that by 15
million times, that's how pissed off the Duke's gonna be.
I'm gonna get the Duke and John Casavetti and Lee Marvin.............................

Welcome back AndyZee!

 

[Geoff]

Lots of talk about diesel being more expensive than unleaded in this thread. That hasn't been the case lately around me with the latest run up in unleaded prices. Last I checked, diesel was about 10 cents cheaper a gallon than 87 octane.

Again... depends on which state you're talkin' 'bout since the state tax can be such a major component in diesel pricing. New Hampshire fuel tax on diesel isn't all that bad. If you go somewhere like Connecticut, you'll find that diesel is higher than gasoline.

If you look on the NYMEX futures market, heating oil is $1.77 and gasoline is $1.92 before you layer on taxes, transportation costs, and a really modest price markup. Diesel tracks heating oil since it's basically the same stuff.

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/energyprices.html

You can also see the gasoline futures prices charted for the year with the recent runup here:
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/RB/69

 

[Glenn]

How sad is that? The H3 is indeed pointless.

As an avid SUV and truck hater, I am pretty excited about GM downsizing in hopes that a good portion of their big cars will be eliminated. I am sure they will still keep enough around for the folks who actually need them, the rest of the bandwagoners can go buy reasonably sized cars.

The margins were in the larger vehicles for GM (and Ford and Chrysler for that matter). So effectively, getting rid of the larger vehicles may indeed be detrimental to the company. Don't even get me started on the silly laws built into CAFE that are nothing more than Union protection clauses and force the domestics to make smaller cars in the US of A...at a loss.

And before this turns into a domestic hAtEr fest...The margins are there for the Asian brands as well. Honda makes a pretty penny on the Pilot and Ridgeline. Toyota does well with its trucks.

IMHO, GM should downsize if the market demands they downsize. Making smaller cars because someone thinks it's the right thing to do is just on big ass mistake, America.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna get myself a 1967 Cadillac El Dorado
Convertible, hot pink, with whaleskin hubcaps and all-leather cow
interior and big brown baby seal eyes for headlights... yeah! And I'm
gonna drive around in that baby at 115 miles per hour, getting 1 mile
per gallon, suckin' down quarter pound cheeseburgers from McDonald's
in the old-fashioned non-biodegradable styrofoam containers and when
I'm done suckin' down those greaseball burgers I'm gonna wipe my mouth
on the American Flag and then I'm gonna toss the styrofoam containers
right out the side, and there ain't a goddamn thing anybody can
do about it. You know why? Because we got the bombs, that's why Two
words: Nuclear efin weapons, OK? Russia, Germany, Romania, they
can have all the democracy they want...they can have a big democracy
cakewalk right through the middle of Tienamen Square and it won't make
a lick of difference, because we got the bombs, OK? John Wayne's not
dead, he's frozen! And as soon as we find a cure for cancer, we're
gonna thaw out the Duke and he's gonna be pretty pissed off. You know
why? Have you ever taken a cold shower? Well, multiply that by 15
million times, that's how pissed off the Duke's gonna be.
I'm gonna get the Duke and John Casavetti and Lee Marvin.............................

Dennis Leary is the bomb deezy..hey we'll all be dead in the next 50+ years so hook me up with a double steezeburger

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

simply amazing how cheap gas is..a freaking bargain..even at $4 a gallon like last summer

 

[andyzee]

Dennis Leary is the bomb deezy..hey we'll all be dead in the next 50+ years so hook me up with a double steezeburger

You know what I'm talking about. Screw the lil rug rats, let em beg on the corners.


Life's gonna suck when you grow up, when you grow
up, when you grow up Life's gonna suck when you
grow up, it sucks pretty bad right now Hey, if you
know the words, sing along You're gonna have to
mow the lawn, do the dishes, make your bed You're
gonna have to go to school until you're seventeen
It's gonna seem about tree times as long as that
You might have to go to war, shoot a gun, kill a
nun You might have to go to war when you get out
of school Hey cheer up kids, it gets a lot worse
You're gonna have to deal with stress, deal with
stress, deal with stress You're gonna be a giant
mess when you get back from the war Santa Claus
does not exist, and there is no Easter Bunny
You'll find out when you grow up that Big Bird
isn't funny Life's gonna suck when you grow up,
when you grow up, when you grow up Life's gonna
suck when you grow up, it sucks pretty bad right
now You're gonna end up smoking crack, on you're
back, face the fact You're gonna end up hooked on
smack and then you're gonna die And then you're
gonna die

 

[koreshot]

The margins were in the larger vehicles for GM (and Ford and Chrysler for that matter). So effectively, getting rid of the larger vehicles may indeed be detrimental to the company. Don't even get me started on the silly laws built into CAFE that are nothing more than Union protection clauses and force the domestics to make smaller cars in the US of A...at a loss.

I see your point, but my safety on the road, reduction in pollution and dependence on oil (foreign and domestic) ranks higher with me personally than a car manufacturer's bottom line. Looks like most Americans agree - many of the bigger cars have been sitting on dealer lots, for example Hummer :grin:.

And before this turns into a domestic hAtEr fest...The margins are there for the Asian brands as well. Honda makes a pretty penny on the Pilot and Ridgeline. Toyota does well with its trucks.

This isn't a domestics vs. foreign, its just that this thread is primarily about GM so. You won't hear me disputing the point about Toyota. Toyota has gone overboard too with the seemingly 100 different SUV and truck models between it and Lexus. The Prius is more of a "brand image adjuster" to make folks think they are all about the environment.

IMHO, GM should downsize if the market demands they downsize. Making smaller cars because someone thinks it's the right thing to do is just on big ass mistake, America.

I won't touch this with a 10 foot pole - mainly cause I am not an economist.

 

[Hawkshot99]

I see your point, but my safety on the road, reduction in pollution and dependence on oil (foreign and domestic) ranks higher with me personally than a car manufacturer's bottom line. Looks like most Americans agree - many of the bigger cars have been sitting on dealer lots, for example Hummer :grin:.


This isn't a domestics vs. foreign, its just that this thread is primarily about GM so. You won't hear me disputing the point about Toyota. Toyota has gone overboard too with the seemingly 100 different SUV and truck models between it and Lexus. The Prius is more of a "brand image adjuster" to make folks think they are all about the environment.


I won't touch this with a 10 foot pole - mainly cause I am not an economist.

I think you drive a Subie of some sort, but what model do you drive(or other car if not Subie?)

 

[mondeo]

Again... depends on which state you're talkin' 'bout since the state tax can be such a major component in diesel pricing. New Hampshire fuel tax on diesel isn't all that bad. If you go somewhere like Connecticut, you'll find that diesel is higher than gasoline.

If you look on the NYMEX futures market, heating oil is $1.77 and gasoline is $1.92 before you layer on taxes, transportation costs, and a really modest price markup. Diesel tracks heating oil since it's basically the same stuff.

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/energyprices.html

You can also see the gasoline futures prices charted for the year with the recent runup here:
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/RB/69

Diesel's now slightly cheaper in CT, even. My guess is the fall-off in trucking, shipping, etc. has been steeper than auto traffic.

All this talk about hybrid this and diesel that... all these technologies are just duct tape. The root of the problem is huge cars and performance cars -- and huge performance cars ..

20 years ago we had Honda Civics getting 45mpg - no hybrid technology and no fancy diesel. Light weight, small profile, small engine.

The Prius gets 45mpg on the highway...oh and when cruising it doesn't use its hybrid drive. It gets that mileage because it has a slipery design and a tiny/efficient gas engine.

Buy small!

Small yes, slow no. You can get into the 30s for mileage on Corvettes without too much problem. In fact, increasing engine efficiency goes hand in hand with performance; many of the technologies that improve efficiency also improve performance, as they result in more of the energy in the fuel being effectively put to use.

A lot of the additional weight has been regulated into place, too. A Civic in '89 weighed about 2100lbm, today it's 2600lbm. You can't make a car today that weighs less than 2000lbs, for all practical purposes. Even a Lotus Elise, designed purely for low weight (not even a radio,) weighs 1900lbs.

Why not diesel hybrids?

 

[koreshot]

Small yes, slow no. You can get into the 30s for mileage on Corvettes without too much problem.

I didn't say buy slow, I said buy small. And yes, the Corvette is rated at 25mpg and folks regularly get close to 30mpg today.

Sure, safety requirements and consumer standards make it difficult to make cars as light as they were 20 years ago. Kinda funny, my 5 year old car does 0-60 in 12 seconds on a good day and I find it perfectly adequate for daily commuting. The new Prius, a car supposedly designed to maximize fuel efficiency, would obligerate me off the line . And the magazines still complain that the Prius is too slow. :uzi:

 

[Geoff]

I didn't say buy slow, I said buy small. And yes, the Corvette is rated at 25mpg and folks regularly get close to 30mpg today.

Sure, safety requirements and consumer standards make it difficult to make cars as light as they were 20 years ago. Kinda funny, my 5 year old car does 0-60 in 12 seconds on a good day and I find it perfectly adequate for daily commuting. The new Prius, a car supposedly designed to maximize fuel efficiency, would obligerate me off the line . And the magazines still complain that the Prius is too slow. :uzi:

One of the KZone mods has a fleet of Corvettes. On the highway at the speed limit, they get over 30 mpg. If you put narrow, hard tires on it, you'd probably get closer to 40 mpg. ....though there's really no point in doing that.

I drive a turbo 4 as my daily driver. I think it's the right way to go since you get the thrift and low weight of a small engine most of the time but the performance is there when you want it. At this time of year, I get well over 30 mpg if I keep it near the speed limit. In the winter with thicker air, I lose around 3 mpg and see a rapid drop-off at higher speeds.

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, cars have become bloated. All the safety features like side intrusion and air bags adds several hundred pounds. My transmission is pretty heavy. Air conditioning. Power windows. Wide rims. My VW GTI is 500 pounds heavier than a 25 year old version of the car and the interior volume of the car must be at least 25% more. The same is true of things like Honda Civics.

 

[Glenn]

I see your point, but my safety on the road, reduction in pollution and dependence on oil (foreign and domestic) ranks higher with me personally than a car manufacturer's bottom line. Looks like most Americans agree - many of the bigger cars have been sitting on dealer lots, for example Hummer :grin:.


This isn't a domestics vs. foreign, its just that this thread is primarily about GM so. You won't hear me disputing the point about Toyota. Toyota has gone overboard too with the seemingly 100 different SUV and truck models between it and Lexus. The Prius is more of a "brand image adjuster" to make folks think they are all about the environment.


I won't touch this with a 10 foot pole - mainly cause I am not an economist.

I'm not so sure about the trucks sitting on the lot. Just to be safe, I looked up some data on Wards.com: http://wardsauto.com/keydata/USSalesSummary0905/

For May 2009:
Total Car sales: 484,028
Total Truck Sales: 439,318


2009 Year to date:
Car sales: 2,015,408
Truck sales: 1,922,288

It seems pretty even to me. Granted, we don't have productions numbers or "days on hand" of inventory. I will say though, I read in the WSJ that smaller car inventory is stacking up. Days on hand is much higher than it was a year ago. Probably due to gas prices.

If you're happy with a smaller vehicle for whatever reason, that's totally cool with me. I'm certainly not one to dictate what you, or anyone else should by. In the same vein, I think the same should be granted to me...or anyone else: Buy what you like.

You're on the money with Toyota..and I'd say Honda as well. Many people think they're "greener" than domestic or other makers. Reality is, they're just about the same.

 

[drjeff]

My VW GTI is 500 pounds heavier than a 25 year old version of the car and the interior volume of the car must be at least 25% more. The same is true of things like Honda Civics.

Some of this needs to be accounted for in the plain and simple fact that a good percentage of the population is about 25% physically larger than they were 25 years ago

 

[koreshot]

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, cars have become bloated. All the safety features like side intrusion and air bags adds several hundred pounds. My transmission is pretty heavy. Air conditioning. Power windows. Wide rims. My VW GTI is 500 pounds heavier than a 25 year old version of the car and the interior volume of the car must be at least 25% more. The same is true of things like Honda Civics.

Time to downgrade to the Mini Cooper S. ... saves you 800 lbs, but you give up space and the DSG (if thats what you have).

The MINI too is a ton heavier than than the original Mini.

 

[koreshot]

If you're happy with a smaller vehicle for whatever reason, that's totally cool with me. I'm certainly not one to dictate what you, or anyone else should by. In the same vein, I think the same should be granted to me...or anyone else: Buy what you like.

I agree with this in principle - this isn't a socialist country..... yet

But in practice, where do we stop? If someone wants to drive a tank with 10 foot spikes on the bumper, should we let them?

The issue I have on the road is - I am buying a car that is as small as possible but still meets my 4 person family's needs. This benefits me as well as crazy-nj-soccer-mom, because it reduces pollution, dependence on oil and lowers potential of accidents/damage/death thanks to better active safety and lower kinetic energy.

But, crazy-nj-soccer-mom goes and buys the Cadillac Escalate XLT Superdestroyer Edition, slaps on a tubular grill guard called "The Punisher" and goes flyind down the parkway at 90mph while talking on the cell phone and possibly into the back of my much smaller car.

Doesn't seem fair to me.

I am not saying I know the answer to the problem -- for example, I don't know how we address that some folks honestly need the F350 super duty while others don't and you can't make the truck too expensive because the folks that really need it won't be able to afford it -- I am just stating my frustration with the situation.