That looks awesome. Can we revive those plans? :lol:
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Will New England See a New Ski Area In the Next 20 Years?
- Thread starter MadMadWorld
- Start date
That looks awesome. Can we revive those plans? :lol:
from_the_NEK
Active member
Dorset Peak, while a large mtn, would have to be almost completely sustained with snowmaking since it is outside (west of) the main Green Mtn spine. It would seriously struggle for natural snow. You can look through the history of snow depth here (Dorest Peak is top left, Stratton lower right):
http://www.nohrsc.nws.gov/interactive/html/map.html?ql=station&zoom=&loc=43.2097+N%2C+73.1633+W&var=ssm_depth&dy=2009&dm=2&dd=7&dh=12&snap=1&o6=1&o11=1&o9=1&o12=1&o13=1&lbl=m&mode=pan&extents=us&min_x=-73.175000000002&min_y=43.008333333334&max_x=-72.808333333335&max_y=43.375&coord_x=-72.9916666666685&coord_y=43.191666666667004&zbox_n=&zbox_s=&zbox_e=&zbox_w=&metric=0&shdvar=shading&width=800&height=800&nw=800&nh=800&h_o=0&font=0&js=1&uc=0
http://www.nohrsc.nws.gov/interactive/html/map.html?ql=station&zoom=&loc=43.2097+N%2C+73.1633+W&var=ssm_depth&dy=2009&dm=2&dd=7&dh=12&snap=1&o6=1&o11=1&o9=1&o12=1&o13=1&lbl=m&mode=pan&extents=us&min_x=-73.175000000002&min_y=43.008333333334&max_x=-72.808333333335&max_y=43.375&coord_x=-72.9916666666685&coord_y=43.191666666667004&zbox_n=&zbox_s=&zbox_e=&zbox_w=&metric=0&shdvar=shading&width=800&height=800&nw=800&nh=800&h_o=0&font=0&js=1&uc=0
As in a brand new development--no. Not in Vermont because the Act 250 process will prevent anymore from opening.
Not in NH because most of the mountains that have not been developed are in the WMNF and folks will not allow another ski area to open.
Probably not in Maine because of environmental reasons and not enough of a population base.
Within the last few years we've lost Ascutney, Tenney, and Bear Creek (I believe it is closed).
I think if someone was going to start an area they'd revive a NELSAP area first since there it was an existing area and there would probably be at least some infrastructure left.
The big factors that have changed over the years include the cost of land, the environmental regulations, lack of capital, climate change (to some extent requiring snowmaking), and the cost of labor. It is no longer easy to open much of anything.
And as said Magic actually was developed in the 1960's. As to the latest "new" area, as in completely new, I'm not sure what that would be.
The AT and LT cross over both actually. Les Otten/ASC actually relocated the LT/AT between Pico and Killington in anticipation of the interconnect that is still coming I think......
from_the_NEK
Active member
Old Speck in Maine on the other hand, has some potential.
But no, I highly doubt there will be any new "major"(800'+of vert) ski areas built in New England in any of our life times. Hell it is hard enought to keep the ones that are built open (e.g. Ascutney, Bolton, Burke, Magic, Haystack, Pico, Whaleback, Mittersill, etc)
But no, I highly doubt there will be any new "major"(800'+of vert) ski areas built in New England in any of our life times. Hell it is hard enought to keep the ones that are built open (e.g. Ascutney, Bolton, Burke, Magic, Haystack, Pico, Whaleback, Mittersill, etc)
steamboat1
New member
Yes Bear Creek (formerly Round Top) is closed. Shame because it is a nice ski area. Skied there many times in my youth when it was open to the public & named Round Top.
drjeff
Well-known member
Though not in New England, if I recall correctly, the most recent "completely new" ski area development in the East is Whitetail in PA - and after a quick wikipedia look up, it opened in 1991
Though not in New England, if I recall correctly, the most recent "completely new" ski area development in the East is Whitetail in PA - and after a quick wikipedia look up, it opened in 1991
Wow! That is late.
We have a new ski area being built here in Utah. Somewhere up north near Logan. And FWIW Deer Valley opened in 1981, albeit on an area that had previously been a ski area.
oakapple
New member
If the question refers to the introduction of downhill skiing on a mountain that never had it before, I am sure the answer is no. Many of the NELSAP areas could very well be re-opened. There are plans to integrate Belleyre with the mothballed Highmount area next door, and I think there's a good chance that'll happen.
Skiing hasn't been much of a growth industry, so there isn't motivation to build new ski areas, even if you could get the environmental approval, which in most places you can't. But if you're going to get the approval at all, it's much likely to occur where you're tacking onto an existing area, where much of the necessary infrastructure already exists, than if you're building from scratch on virgin territory.
Skiing hasn't been much of a growth industry, so there isn't motivation to build new ski areas, even if you could get the environmental approval, which in most places you can't. But if you're going to get the approval at all, it's much likely to occur where you're tacking onto an existing area, where much of the necessary infrastructure already exists, than if you're building from scratch on virgin territory.
Gnarcissaro
New member
That picture is taken from Little Bigelow of the south side of West and Avery Peaks. The plan for the ski area involved the other (north) side of the mountain, I believe, which is less steep (awesome.) I think the voters of Maine got it right in the 70s in setting Bigelow Preserve aside and nixing development.
Looking at this aerial image, it seems a scar in the trees looking like a grown in liftline is visible (marked "A" and "B.") Was a line ever cut there, in addition to the lodge mentioned? Looks like it.
And to answer the OP, unfortunately no. Far too many regs and huge capital investment involved to get a project off the ground. Winters aren't getting any snowier, either.
Yes. The owners went to the town last summer and had a proposal with a lot of potential activies. The town balked...as did a few neighbors. I think the plan is on hold for now. My wife and I hiked the mountain a few weeks back; two weekends in a row. The South chair needs some cutting back. But the lift line for the North Chair is pretty clear and the unload ramp was still in decent shape. I would love it see it open again. It could be a great local hill; even only operating on the weekends or holidays.
Regarding a "Brand New" ski area opening in New England. As others have said, probably not. We're burried in redtape, regulation and stakeholders.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
No. And here are the four reasons why.
1) Money
2) Politics
3) Demographics
4) Economics
1) It is extremely expensive to build a ski resort from the ground up. That kind of access to seed capital is somewhat difficult in the best of times, right now it would be nearly impossible. Most banks (and private equity) currently do not have the appetite (understandably) for this sort of risk.
2) New England is virtually entirely run by Democrats, and they are beholden to the more liberal factions of their constituents, who will resist even so much as the cutting of a single spruce tree. New Hampshire is a purplish exception, but the pro-environmental forces are strong there as well.
3) Take a look at the population dynamics and shifting of this nation. It looks poor for the ski industry. The historically ski-loving babyboomer generation is aging, and with that aging many will be skiing less, and some not at all. Furthermore, birth rates for the white population (which represents the vast majority of skier visits) is decreasing. Increased competition is not logical in this market, in fact, I predict ski area consolidation and/or contraction, not expansion.
4) Unlike 1,2, and 3, this last one is entirely speculative on my part, but I believe this nation's economic destiny is worse than a Southeast Asian trainwreck.
kabacrunch
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Agree with smelly - I think you will see a reduction/consolidation of resorts in the NE rather than an expansion...places are getting too expensive for the product they produce
x10003q
Active member
There will never be an all new ski area. One more reason - Bicknell's Thrush.
St. Bear
New member
KevinF
Member
I didn't read through this whole thread, but I can't imagine there will ever be another brand-new ski area opening in New England. Natural snowfall here is simply too variable, and snowmaking is too expensive. Not to mention the expense of lifts, staff, environmental studies, marketing, etc. You'd have an enormous initial outlay of expenses with no real prospect of turning a profit for a long, long time.
The areas that we now think of as "big" (i.e,. Stowe, Killington, Sugarloaf, etc.) started out tiny in a much different era. They've grown to the size they are through decades of expansions, and they are now famous among New England skiers. You'd have to create a whole new ski area from scratch of comparable size in order to lure skier traffic away from the existing areas. Nobody is going to abandon Sugarloaf because "hey, Bigelow Mountain has two trails ! Let's go ski there!"
The areas that we now think of as "big" (i.e,. Stowe, Killington, Sugarloaf, etc.) started out tiny in a much different era. They've grown to the size they are through decades of expansions, and they are now famous among New England skiers. You'd have to create a whole new ski area from scratch of comparable size in order to lure skier traffic away from the existing areas. Nobody is going to abandon Sugarloaf because "hey, Bigelow Mountain has two trails ! Let's go ski there!"
bdfreetuna
New member
Just develop the entire Mahoosuc range!
Actually that is one area I hesitate to encourage development because it is quite beautiful up there. Isn't this protected forest area, anyway?
SIKSKIER
New member
Revelstoke was already a ski area before the huge expansion above it.
4aprice
Well-known member
As far as New England I'm still dreaming of someone cutting trails down North Twin. It will never happen but its my dream.
Alex
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
Alex
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
MadMadWorld
Active member
How about Katahdin while we're at it? haha. I know that will NEVER happen and I am definitely okay with that. It is a great range though!
I always wondered what could of been with Mount Carrigain if only it faced in the right direction.
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