Would Killington have opened if Wildcat didn't?

[Greg]

Feel free to discuss...

 

[Vortex]

If they opened Friday I might have said yes. I think they waited until they felt they could do it right. My opinion only.

 

[ski_adk]

No reason to not open

Killington was in amazingly great shape this weekend. Yes, they did have to surface some stuff near the base to fill in water bars and streams, but damn, it was awesome. They would have had a lot of 'splainin to do if they didn't open.

 

[RIDEr]

Two different ways to look at it.

The Business Perspective...
They were losing out on money while people were hiking the mountain and wanted to cash in on some early ticket sales.

The Do the Right Thing Perspective...
The weeklong snow storms certainly provided a good base (per people posting articles and pics all last week) that gave the people that didn't want to hike the mountain to enjoy the early snowfall.

 

[riverc0il]

given how close to the wire the decision was, i think it was a serious consideration on ASC management regarding the fact that wildcat was about to show them up and they would have to answer to their pass holders. i am of the opinion that the snowmaking and 'quality top to bottom' was over hyped. i didn't ski kmart this weeekend, but from all the reports i have read, this decision should have been a no brainer not a last second decision. we will likely never know what made management make the decisions they did, but i find it interesting to discuss and debate and consider.

 

[RossiSkier]

I don't think Wildcat bothered them as much as Okemo, IMO. More it was the amazing powder that would have melted away without anyone having taken advantage of it.

 

[frozencorn]

No. End of thread.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Kmart doesn't give a hoot about what Wildcat does, if it was the Bush, Okemo, Mt Snow, diferent discussion.

 

[riverc0il]

Kmart doesn't give a hoot about what Wildcat does, if it was the Bush, Okemo, Mt Snow, diferent discussion.

during the normal calendar year, sure. but beating kmart by two weeks on the opening day scale? what about complaints from pass holders of kmart that watched news reports of wildcat opening and being forced to hike for turns or simply watch hikers post pics of perfect conditions. i disagree that kmart didn't give a hoot about wildcat opening. during any other time of the year, wildcat isn't even on kmart's radar screen, they are not in competition. but for marketing press, prestiege, and pass holder value, wildcat presented significant issues for kmart to address considering how much snow they had available.

 

[eatskisleep]

Kmart doesn't give a hoot about what Wildcat does, if it was the Bush, Okemo, Mt Snow, diferent discussion.

during the normal calendar year, sure. but beating kmart by two weeks on the opening day scale? what about complaints from pass holders of kmart that watched news reports of wildcat opening and being forced to hike for turns or simply watch hikers post pics of perfect conditions. i disagree that kmart didn't give a hoot about wildcat opening. during any other time of the year, wildcat isn't even on kmart's radar screen, they are not in competition. but for marketing press, prestiege, and pass holder value, wildcat presented significant issues for kmart to address considering how much snow they had available.

And for those reasons that is why I say that Killington would not have opened if Wildcat didn't.

 

[LineSki15]

wow it's good to be back on this forum, this is my first post of the season.
Just to chime in on this discussion, I am not sure if Killington would have opened if the cat didn't.
Killington always touts itself as the best in the east and to not open and let a small rinky-dink moutain like Wildcat open before them would have been somewhat of a disgrace for them.
I think this discussion totally revolves around prestige and one-upness.

At a business perspective, do you think either mountain actually made any profits from this weekend?
With energy costs high and having to get people working when they normally wouldn't, I'm sure they were lucky if they broke even on the day.

 

[awf170]

a small rinky-dink moutain like Wildcat

Take that back... :wink: wildcat is not a small rinky-dink mountain, they have a way bigger continious vertical then k-mart

 

[riverc0il]

At a business perspective, do you think either mountain actually made any profits from this weekend?

i suspected from a profit margin percentage, this weekend may well have been one of the highest percentage profits of the season. very minimal overhead, LOTS of skiers, no snowmaking, minimal grooming, minimal staff, etc. essentially, this weekend was free money for wildcat since they didn't have to invest in snowmaking. kmart blew snow and ran a lot of lifts, so who knows about them.

wildcat does have a higher 'realistic' continuous vertical than kmart (it is possible to link kmarts full vert from k peak, iirc) but i wouldn't say it's 'way bigger' couple hundred verts better if you take kbl to the k peak as their longest 'realistic' continuous vert lift.

 

[eatskisleep]

At a business perspective, do you think either mountain actually made any profits from this weekend?

i suspected from a profit margin percentage, this weekend may well have been one of the highest percentage profits of the season. very minimal overhead, LOTS of skiers, no snowmaking, minimal grooming, minimal staff, etc. essentially, this weekend was free money for wildcat since they didn't have to invest in snowmaking. kmart blew snow and ran a lot of lifts, so who knows about them.

wildcat does have a higher 'realistic' continuous vertical than kmart (it is possible to link kmarts full vert from k peak, iirc) but i wouldn't say it's 'way bigger' couple hundred verts better if you take kbl to the k peak as their longest 'realistic' continuous vert lift.

And from what i ahve heard on skier numbers...
350 friday
450 saturday
550ish Sunday

Even at $25 a ticket is $33,750 and if you take away $ to employ people as well as. And lift operating costs... it still seems profitable to me.

 

[riverc0il]

30 on friday and 39 on sat and sun so they obviously did pretty well not even counting food and beer.

 

[eatskisleep]

30 on friday and 39 on sat and sun so they obviously did pretty well not even counting food and beer.

And when you think about it I am sure the food and beers (sonce the lift shut down) helped pay for the employees in itself. I mean 550 guys in a pub :dunce: :beer: But anyway I am sure they did great. Who knows... maybe even better than K because Wildcat didn't have to make any snow. And K probalbly had a fair share of season's pass holders compared to Wildcat.

 

[LineSki15]

wow, I DO take it back guys. my apologies. Wildcat is possibly my favorite mountain, but I was playing devils advocate from K-Mart's perspective.

I also guess Wildcat was profitable based on the numbers you guys have, but I still think K-Mart was lucky to breakeven. You guys seem to have the info on the numbers, which I didn't have, so I spoke to soon.

 

[JimG.]

a small rinky-dink moutain like Wildcat

Take that back... :wink: wildcat is not a small rinky-dink mountain, they have a way bigger continious vertical then k-mart

Wildcat: funky and old school. Many classic old style NE trails, lots of glades and tree shots. Some snowmaking, not much.

Killington: big and corporate. Heavily dependent upon massive snowmaking. Bulldozed, flattened, heavily groomed trails. Not much character anymore. But lot's of good stuff still if you know where to look.

Depends on your mood I guess.

 

[awf170]

Wildcat: funky and old school. Many classic old style NE trails, lots of glades and tree shots. Some snowmaking, not much.

Jim, have you been to wildcat before?

 

[JimG.]

Wildcat: funky and old school. Many classic old style NE trails, lots of glades and tree shots. Some snowmaking, not much.

Jim, have you been to wildcat before?

Once, this past April...not much was open, but there was a nice 2000 vert bump run under the HSQ. However, it was obvious to me the place was old school even without much snow.

On the list to ski mid-winter this season.