The "Sugarbush Thread"

[cdskier]

I'm rarely there early enough to catch the first chair (non-early up) so the early up cancellation really doesn't affect me. But last season, the one day that I was there early enough, they were slow getting the early ups going so they didn't open Bravo until early ups got their full 30 minutes which led to me getting on the lift around 8:20. I wasn't thrilled as the reason that I made it to the mountain that early was that I had to be on the road earlier than normal.

I've been a strong defender of management at SB, but the signs are not great. NRX has to be replaced. Slide Brook needs to be fixed. I understand cancelling programs where the costs outweigh the benefits, but it's still not a great sign. The lift served mountain biking cancellation is troubling as I doubt it will ever come back.

It isn't just lift-served mountain biking either. They've abandoned so much in terms of summer ops. I guess the visitation wasn't there to justify it, but I'm also not sure they did a great job promoting what they did have. Years ago they had lift served biking, lift-served scenic lift rides, lift-served disc golf, and a variety of things at the base area (I even remember a small zip line going across the base area at one point).

For me though, one of the biggest issues continues to be the sheer lack of communication and transparency from management.

And Early Ups causing a delay on opening Bravo to the general public is bizarre. Everyone else paid for access starting at 8, therefore it should open at 8 even if Early Ups only started loading at 7:55. Only acceptable reason for a lift to be delayed for the public is if it is delayed for everyone due to weather/mechanical type of issues.

 

[mikec142]

It isn't just lift-served mountain biking either. They've abandoned so much in terms of summer ops. I guess the visitation wasn't there to justify it, but I'm also not sure they did a great job promoting what they did have. Years ago they had lift served biking, lift-served scenic lift rides, lift-served disc golf, and a variety of things at the base area (I even remember a small zip line going across the base area at one point).

For me though, one of the biggest issues continues to be the sheer lack of communication and transparency from management.

I completely agree...the lack of transparency and communication is troubling. They got hammered over this issue with the Heaven's Gate replacement. You would think they would learn their lesson.

You have a place up there...are you using it as much in the summer?

 

[Plowboy]

The Blue Stone was bought by the same guy that recently bought the VG (Village Grocery). From what hear he's looking for someone to lease it. Rumor has it that Hammond fired PK who was the VP of mountain operations. Imo the new Tommy's Toy does not fit in with overall vibe of ME at all. I haven't been to the pond, but the river and all of the brooks are very very very low!!! Living next to ME I can say most if not all of the events at ME have been flops this summer. On a positive note it's a beautiful day here next to ME!!

 

[cdskier]

I completely agree...the lack of transparency and communication is troubling. They got hammered over this issue with the Heaven's Gate replacement. You would think they would learn their lesson.

You have a place up there...are you using it as much in the summer?

Nope...haven't been up since April. Even when there was stuff to do I was lucky to make it up there twice a summer (usually for the BrewGrass festival that they no longer have and then one other weekend). Hard to justify driving 5 hours this time of year. I enjoy hiking, but not enough to drive that far too often. Too much other stuff to do closer to home.

 

[HowieT2]

The Blue Stone was bought by the same guy that recently bought the VG (Village Grocery). From what hear he's looking for someone to lease it. Rumor has it that Hammond fired PK who was the VP of mountain operations. Imo the new Tommy's Toy does not fit in with overall vibe of ME at all. I haven't been to the pond, but the river and all of the brooks are very very very low!!! Living next to ME I can say most if not all of the events at ME have been flops this summer. On a positive note it's a beautiful day here next to ME!!

I was up the week before labor day and Ive never seen the streams as low as they were. We did get a little rain that week but it wasnt much. Didnt see the snowmaking pond.
I too am disappointed at the abandonment of the mtn bike trail plan. However I wonder if it would have been successful in attracting people since the trails in the valley are already great and there are shuttles for those who want to skip the climbing.

 

[jimmywilson69]

I mean how much lift served MTB can Vermont support? Killington has a significant build out in that genre. If you aren't offering what they have or better, then its hard to attract paying customers.

when these places were all "independently owned" Summer activities were a away to keep valued staff on board year round. Alterra and Vail don't give a shit about that. They've made that pretty clear...

 

[Lotso]

Lack of water starting to get worrisome. Nothing in next 2 weeks from what I see, at least nothing that will allow them to pull from the Mad or fill the ME pond.

November could be ugly without water for snowmaking. Starting to worry about my well...

 

[tumbler]

I think they are not allowed to pull from the river yet, might be Nov 1 to March 1 or something around that. Plus they need to put the dam in to raise the water level to the height of the intakes. It is worrisome for sure, they'll open on First Time or with the new carpet at ME.

 

[urungus]

Years ago they had lift served biking, lift-served scenic lift rides, lift-served disc golf, and a variety of things at the base area

Lift serviced disc golf ? Why would you need a chairlift to go golfing (disc golf or traditional) ?

 

[thetrailboss]

Lift serviced disc golf ? Why would you need a chairlift to go golfing (disc golf or traditional) ?

Believe it or not, it is a thing. If it is like Brighton or other places, the course runs down the mountain. So folks ride up the lift and do the course down the mountain.

 

[cdskier]

Lift serviced disc golf ? Why would you need a chairlift to go golfing (disc golf or traditional) ?

Exactly what TB said. At one point Sugarbush had 2 courses. One course was in the base area (in the lower Gate House area trails and woods). The other course started at the top of Super Bravo and worked all the way down the mountain. It was fun and quite challenging.

Edit...here's a map of the old peak course:

 

[HowieT2]

I mean how much lift served MTB can Vermont support? Killington has a significant build out in that genre. If you aren't offering what they have or better, then its hard to attract paying customers.

when these places were all "independently owned" Summer activities were a away to keep valued staff on board year round. Alterra and Vail don't give a shit about that. They've made that pretty clear...

yeah, I dont know that even with an attractive offering, its bringing in the kind of customers they need.

 

[HowieT2]

Nope...haven't been up since April. Even when there was stuff to do I was lucky to make it up there twice a summer (usually for the BrewGrass festival that they no longer have and then one other weekend). Hard to justify driving 5 hours this time of year. I enjoy hiking, but not enough to drive that far too often. Too much other stuff to do closer to home.

I got mad taco, canteen creamee and flatbread twice. More than worth the drive

 

[VTSkiBike]

Lift serving biking at SB may be dying but Mad River Riders has been doing some serious work on the trail network in the town. New trails, new parking and new signage have made navigating the biking trails much better. The riding in the valley and at BB Lake is much better and just offers more trails to a wider variety of riders.

Lift served riding in Vermont is not all that popular compared to all the folks out there pedaling.

That said, I'm equally frustrate at SB just not addressing glaring issues with lifts and operations.

 

[Newpylong]

Folks are quick to say "so and so needs to put in mountain biking" but you need to understand that even the most heavily utilized MTB parks (IE Killington) are barely break even in the summer. The parks require a lot of maintenance (professional, not volunteer), additional wear and tear on the lift(s), electricity for said lift, staff to manage and run the operation, etc. If it were a slam dunk more mountains would be doing it.

 

[jimmywilson69]

as @VTSkiBike said, regular trail riding has a broader audience. Let those organizations build up and maintain what is likely more widely used terrain.

 

[Shredmonkey254]

Folks are quick to say "so and so needs to put in mountain biking" but you need to understand that even the most heavily utilized MTB parks (IE Killington) are barely break even in the summer. The parks require a lot of maintenance (professional, not volunteer), additional wear and tear on the lift(s), electricity for said lift, staff to manage and run the operation, etc. If it were a slam dunk more mountains would be doing it.

and with the popularity of eMTB's now, there is going to be less and less need for lift served mountain biking. The trail network in the state of VT is simply amazing and I'm certain is also pulling people away from the ski areas. You can find machine made, bermy trails in the most remote places now. Vermont is a destination state for mountain biking every bit as much as a ski/snowboard destination. They are doing it right!

 

[mikec142]

There's a lot of truth to what people have said and I certainly don't think it's a good idea to do something that loses money, especially when there are other great options nearby.

If I owned property on the access road or at the mountain I'd want a community that was multi-season. The winter community is a given. The other three seasons are not as clear cut to me. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I would think it would be helpful to have the mountain and its infrastructure as the de facto community center.

On a random Thursday evening in the Spring/Summer/Fall, what's going on at the Gate House Plaza? Are people hanging out and grabbing a drink? What about the random Friday or Saturday or Sunday?

FWIW, I truly don't know what happens and I'm genuinely curious.

I'll pose another question...lets say I was to buy a home at SB, how would I go about developing my community? I know exactly how I did it when we moved from NYC to NJ, but a lot of that had to do with my kids and where I live in NJ is suburban, not rural.

 

[mikec142]

I got mad taco, canteen creamee and flatbread twice. More than worth the drive

How far is your drive? I'm always happen to venture out for food, but I live in a suburb of NYC and 40 minutes from the NJ Shore. It's tough for me to motivate to make the 5.5 hour (each way) drive when there's no snow on the ground.

 

[HowieT2]

Folks are quick to say "so and so needs to put in mountain biking" but you need to understand that even the most heavily utilized MTB parks (IE Killington) are barely break even in the summer. The parks require a lot of maintenance (professional, not volunteer), additional wear and tear on the lift(s), electricity for said lift, staff to manage and run the operation, etc. If it were a slam dunk more mountains would be doing it.

I think the market has evolved away from lift served mountain biking in the last 10-15 years. There are so many alternatives that are free and better. The trails in the valley are light years ahead of what they were years ago, not to mention what's available in the region as a whole.