The "Sugarbush Thread"

[crystalmountainskier]

Starting to follow the Vail MO as they treat Attatash and Wildcat in NH. Must get a small profit off of Sugarbush and don't want to dump money into the place.

Now now Sugarbush just installed a million dollar conveyor.

 

[ducky]

Peak foliage.

 

[Smellytele]

looks a little muted

 

[VTSkiBike]

Foliage this year is kind of a let down due to the drought. I went for a gravel ride in Tunbridge yesterday and the trees are already looking bare. Still some nice scenery but not nearly as bright as years' past.

 

[vtboarder]

re the fire: not saying it was this, but have heard they installed a fryer this year...

re the drought: even after nearly 1.25" rain, my pond is down about a foot and the total for the month is a whopping 2.6" after 1.7" in Aug and 3.3" in July

I do hope someone in what counts as "management" is giving serious consideration to the Plan B of Mt. Ellen open first based upon past relative water levels for snowmaking.

 

[mikec142]

Insurance pays for nothing. Those companies don't profit by giving out fair settlements.

It's almost not worth getting into this on a ski board, but these two sentences couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Blurski]

If they had third-party coverage (as opposed to self-insuring), they would likely get a payout, but even if they do, it's unlikely to cover the full loss (presumably at least a significant deductible involved). And even if it did cover the full cost, they'd need to invest staff time into managing the project, which means that staff has less bandwidth for other projects.

I have been involved in several total losses representing clients, & they all ended up being a multi year battle with insurance companies, including the condos that burned several years back, some of you may have been caught up in that mess. Insurance says, sure replacement value, we pay you for exactly what you had, unfortunately in VT you cant build back the same building, it must meet all of the current building & energy codes, you may also run into ACT 250 issues. I'm guessing the shop did not have an elevator, if the new build is more than one floor it will need one that's $300k right there, the list goes on & on.
If you have time and the resources to go to battle, you can probably get a fair payout.

 

[drjeff]

I have been involved in several total losses representing clients, & they all ended up being a multi year battle with insurance companies, including the condos that burned several years back, some of you may have been caught up in that mess. Insurance says, sure replacement value, we pay you for exactly what you had, unfortunately in VT you cant build back the same building, it must meet all of the current building & energy codes, you may also run into ACT 250 issues. I'm guessing the shop did not have an elevator, if the new build is more than one floor it will need one that's $300k right there, the list goes on & on.
If you have time and the resources to go to battle, you can probably get a fair payout.

Wondering if this might be a situation where with the capital resources Alterra has (in reality a new golf course club house for Alterra might not end up being much more than a rounding error in their overall accounting situation), they fund the rebuild themselves, and then battle it out with the insurance company during/after the new structure is built

 

[AdironRider]

I have been involved in several total losses representing clients, & they all ended up being a multi year battle with insurance companies, including the condos that burned several years back, some of you may have been caught up in that mess. Insurance says, sure replacement value, we pay you for exactly what you had, unfortunately in VT you cant build back the same building, it must meet all of the current building & energy codes, you may also run into ACT 250 issues. I'm guessing the shop did not have an elevator, if the new build is more than one floor it will need one that's $300k right there, the list goes on & on.
If you have time and the resources to go to battle, you can probably get a fair payout.

The problem is not the insurance company in this hypothetical, its the policy holder who took a risk and underinsured themselves. You can always pay for additional coverage but in this example this hypothetical person didn't and now is stuck with the bill. That's on them and not the insurance company. As building regulations change the policy taken should reflect the additional burden of replacement (or not if you want to save a few bucks but yeah, that elevator is on you then).

I update my insurance for current replacement per square foot costs every couple years for exactly this reason. Yeah it costs me more, but I feel more confident I'll be able to replace my house and not be left holding the bag.

 

[thetrailboss]

Wondering if this might be a situation where with the capital resources Alterra has (in reality a new golf course club house for Alterra might not end up being much more than a rounding error in their overall accounting situation), they fund the rebuild themselves, and then battle it out with the insurance company during/after the new structure is built

Said financial resources are not going to Sugarbush. They are spending them at places like Deer Valley.

 

[Blurski]

Wondering if this might be a situation where with the capital resources Alterra has (in reality a new golf course club house for Alterra might not end up being much more than a rounding error in their overall accounting situation), they fund the rebuild themselves, and then battle it out with the insurance company during/after the new structure i

The problem is not the insurance company in this hypothetical, its the policy holder who took a risk and underinsured themselves. You can always pay for additional coverage but in this example this hypothetical person didn't and now is stuck with the bill. That's on them and not the insurance company. As building regulations change the policy taken should reflect the additional burden of replacement (or not if you want to save a few bucks but yeah, that elevator is on you then).

I update my insurance for current replacement per square foot costs every couple years for exactly this reason. Yeah it costs me more, but I feel more confident I'll be able to replace my house and not be left holding the bag.

Hopefully that is the way it works out for them.

 

[HowieT2]

Said financial resources are not going to Sugarbush. They are spending them at places like Deer Valley.

Says you? Because they havent paid for and installed a new lift at SB since.....last season.
I'm not here to defend Altera. They may be the worst corporate owner ever. I don't know. Am I disappointed they didnt replace the NRX? absolutely. That frankenlift has needed to be replaced for many years prior to altera's stewardship. I'm not going to blame them for shutting down summer mtn biking when it obviously wasnt attracting enough customers, myself included.
The biggest issue was the delayed opening of the lifts last year and I don't think any of us know what the story was behind that debacle. But IMHO, I doubt it was altera not funding the summer maintenance. It wasn't a capital expense.

 

[Smellytele]

Said financial resources are not going to Sugarbush. They are spending them at places like Deer Valley.

And Stratton I guess

 

[thetrailboss]

Says you? Because they havent paid for and installed a new lift at SB since.....last season.
I'm not here to defend Altera. They may be the worst corporate owner ever. I don't know. Am I disappointed they didnt replace the NRX? absolutely. That frankenlift has needed to be replaced for many years prior to altera's stewardship. I'm not going to blame them for shutting down summer mtn biking when it obviously wasnt attracting enough customers, myself included.
The biggest issue was the delayed opening of the lifts last year and I don't think any of us know what the story was behind that debacle. But IMHO, I doubt it was altera not funding the summer maintenance. It wasn't a capital expense.

What does any of that have to do with the Clubhouse, which was the discussion? Nothing.

 

[tumbler]

I think that they will build back the clubhouse and make it better whether with insurance money upfront or getting it funded afterwards. The golf course is a popular summer activity and a good place to eat. They have put money into the course and Hogan's the past few years and it is in great condition. I don't think Alterra will ignore it. The big question is how will the Town be in the permitting/approval process...history says obstructionist unfortunately.

 

[mikec142]

I have been involved in several total losses representing clients, & they all ended up being a multi year battle with insurance companies, including the condos that burned several years back, some of you may have been caught up in that mess. Insurance says, sure replacement value, we pay you for exactly what you had, unfortunately in VT you cant build back the same building, it must meet all of the current building & energy codes, you may also run into ACT 250 issues. I'm guessing the shop did not have an elevator, if the new build is more than one floor it will need one that's $300k right there, the list goes on & on.
If you have time and the resources to go to battle, you can probably get a fair payout.

@AdironRider addressed this above....but I'll add to it a bit. Insurance policies are contracts. What the insurance company will or will not do is spelled out in the contract. Might there be grey areas in certain cases? Sure. But the vast, vast majority of insurance claims get paid in a reasonable and timely manner.

FWIW, not to cloud the waters, but I think one of the largest insurance disputes was when the twin towers were struck and if it was one incident or two. I don't recall how it was resolved.

 

[HowieT2]

What does any of that have to do with the Clubhouse, which was the discussion? Nothing.

because everyone is piling on altera and IMHO its premature to conclude that they are starving SB for capital investment.

 

[HowieT2]

@AdironRider addressed this above....but I'll add to it a bit. Insurance policies are contracts. What the insurance company will or will not do is spelled out in the contract. Might there be grey areas in certain cases? Sure. But the vast, vast majority of insurance claims get paid in a reasonable and timely manner.

FWIW, not to cloud the waters, but I think one of the largest insurance disputes was when the twin towers were struck and if it was one incident or two. I don't recall how it was resolved.

I fight with insurance companies daily. Sure, they can suck, but most of the time the insured gets the coverage they've paid for.

I think the 9/11 claims were determined to be one incident.

 

[urungus]

I fight with insurance companies daily. Sure, they can suck, but most of the time the insured gets the coverage they've paid for.

Typically the insurance company will start with a lowball offer and the insured only get the coverage they paid for if they have the time and money to fight. (That’s what you are doing daily, right?) … Alterra has plenty of lawyers so I’m confident they will get a fair payout.

 

[mikec142]

Typically the insurance company will start with a lowball offer and the insured only get the coverage they paid for if they have the time and money to fight.

Again, probably not worth getting into this on a ski board, yet here I am. What are you basing this statement on? Are you in the business?