The ALTERRA SUCKS Thread

[crystalmountainskier]

As I said, discouraging restricting IKON access or implementing some crowd control methods (such as reservations). They’ve slowly allowed Alta and JHole to limit access, but it’s been begrudgingly.

JH dramatically changed Ikon access the second season. That was six years ago now. Reservations too. Nothing slow about it, both changes were made promptly after JH and Ikon realized what was happening.

 

[thetrailboss]

What operational limitations have there been at SB? As for capital spending...they did already replace 2 lifts and spend millions on snow-making fixes so far. You can't do everything people want overnight. Let's not also forget that there was a global pandemic that drastically altered the economy and spending overall for a few years. The economy isn't exactly booming lately either... As much as I'd like to spend millions now on all the wish-list items people at SB have, I'd rather they take a pragmatic calculated approach to avoid over-extending themselves. My single biggest complaint at SB continues to be the lack of communication.

All I will say is that when lifts break down and snowmaking is slow then the bitching will begin.....

And they replaced Heaven's Gate, but what other lift did Alterra replace? I think that Sunny D and Village were Win projects. I am not counting a magic carpet.

The pandemic was a major financial plus for the ski industry. Sales were up because people wanted to get outside. Alterra would not be dumping money into Steamboat and Deer Valley otherwise......

 

[4aprice]

What operational limitations have there been at SB? As for capital spending...they did already replace 2 lifts and spend millions on snow-making fixes so far. You can't do everything people want overnight. Let's not also forget that there was a global pandemic that drastically altered the economy and spending overall for a few years. The economy isn't exactly booming lately either... As much as I'd like to spend millions now on all the wish-list items people at SB have, I'd rather they take a pragmatic calculated approach to avoid over-extending themselves. My single biggest complaint at SB continues to be the lack of communication.

I agree with @cdskier on these points. Looks like WInter Park will be one of their next expansion and lift replacement projects.

This Colorado Resort Just Got the Nod on Town-to-Slopes Gondy

Winter Park’s ambitious plan also features new terrain, amenities, and more.

www.skimag.com

 

[Hastur]

TB blames Alterra for screwing up his plan to move to Utah and ski empty slopes in BCC and LCC.

Of course he doesn't blame the influx of transplants from the east coast all looking to ski. (Salt Lake, Utah, Davis Counties especially). It can't be them because he is one of them.

He was 20 years too late unfortunately.

 

[thetrailboss]

TB blames Alterra for screwing up his plan to move to Utah and ski empty slopes in BCC and LCC.

Of course he doesn't blame the influx of transplants from the east coast all looking to ski. (Salt Lake, Utah, Davis Counties especially). It can't be them because he is one of them.

He was 20 years too late unfortunately.

Dude, give it up. I've been here since 2011, so I predate IKON and yes, it is an issue along with people moving here.

 

[Smellytele]

think someone may have mentioned this but on Ikons website saw this
Loon Mountain, Maine
A 60th season celebration brings exclusive merchandise, giveaways, and mountain-wide festivities.

So it isn't only vail that has no idea where their NE mountains are.

 

[thetrailboss]

think someone may have mentioned this but on Ikons website saw this
Loon Mountain, Maine
A 60th season celebration brings exclusive merchandise, giveaways, and mountain-wide festivities.

So it isn't only vail that has no idea where their NE mountains are.

Isn't the Loon the state bird of Maine?

 

[cdskier]

All I will say is that when lifts break down and snowmaking is slow then the bitching will begin.....

And they replaced Heaven's Gate, but what other lift did Alterra replace? I think that Sunny D and Village were Win projects. I am not counting a magic carpet.

The pandemic was a major financial plus for the ski industry. Sales were up because people wanted to get outside. Alterra would not be dumping money into Steamboat and Deer Valley otherwise......

Of course that bitching will begin and continue. But it has been going on long before Alterra showed up. You made it sound like there was some new operational limitation that Alterra imposed. There's no actual evidence they've cut back on any lift/snow-making expenses. And they have dumped millions into the infrastructure already. The problem is the money they've spent really would have only been overtly visible if they did NOT spend it. As for the lift, the Tommy's Toy replacement counts whether you like it or not. Just because it isn't something many of us care about or are impacted by doesn't mean it wasn't needed at some point. In the long run, it will greatly benefit ME to have a reliable beginner carpet running again.

As for the pandemic, nearly every major resort cut back CapEx spending or delayed CapEx projects. Sourcing anything was a major challenge for an extended period of time. I also can't say I've heard resorts bragging about it being a major financial plus. That seems to be some revisionist history. Resorts lost a substantial amount of money when the 2020 season was cut short. Then the 20/21 season had numerous restrictions imposed by various states. Skier visits were lower than 18/19 numbers. The restrictions had to cause a drop in ancillary revenue as well (F&B, etc). It wasn't until 21/22 that things rebounded. But that just let them start catching back up on what they lost the previous 2 years. You don't just start resuming your previous CapEx spending levels after 1 good year. Smart businesses will wait to let things settle down a bit.

 

[thetrailboss]

Of course that bitching will begin and continue. But it has been going on long before Alterra showed up. You made it sound like there was some new operational limitation that Alterra imposed. There's no actual evidence they've cut back on any lift/snow-making expenses. And they have dumped millions into the infrastructure already. The problem is the money they've spent really would have only been overtly visible if they did NOT spend it. As for the lift, the Tommy's Toy replacement counts whether you like it or not. Just because it isn't something many of us care about or are impacted by doesn't mean it wasn't needed at some point. In the long run, it will greatly benefit ME to have a reliable beginner carpet running again.

As for the pandemic, nearly every major resort cut back CapEx spending or delayed CapEx projects. Sourcing anything was a major challenge for an extended period of time. I also can't say I've heard resorts bragging about it being a major financial plus. That seems to be some revisionist history. Resorts lost a substantial amount of money when the 2020 season was cut short. Then the 20/21 season had numerous restrictions imposed by various states. Skier visits were lower than 18/19 numbers. The restrictions had to cause a drop in ancillary revenue as well (F&B, etc). It wasn't until 21/22 that things rebounded. But that just let them start catching back up on what they lost the previous 2 years. You don't just start resuming your previous CapEx spending levels after 1 good year. Smart businesses will wait to let things settle down a bit.

I laughed because you actually think that Alterra deserves credit for replacing Tommy’s Toy. That’s the funniest thing I’ve read in a long time.

Remember that when you’re stuck on a broken down North Ridge Express freezing your ass off. I think that Alterra promised to replace that in 2024. How did that work out?

 

[Former Sunday Rivah Rat]

Dude, give it up. I've been here since 2011, so I predate IKON and yes, it is an issue along with people moving here.

Fortunately Deer Valley's massive expansion will spread out the IKON crowds.

 

[cdskier]

I laughed because you actually think that Alterra deserves credit for replacing Tommy’s Toy. That’s the funniest thing I’ve read in a long time.

Remember that when you’re stuck on a broken down North Ridge Express freezing your ass off. I think that Alterra promised to replace that in 2024. How did that work out?

Your contempt for Alterra continues to cloud your judgement.

When did Alterra ever officially promise to replace NRX in 2024? The only "official" comment from anyone was John H casually mentioning it was going to be replaced the year after HG in a video. Knowing John H, I wouldn't be surprised if he put the cart before the horse and made that comment before he had any fully approved budget commitment for it. Or budgets could have changed (as someone that works for a company far larger than Alterra, I can say budget changes and re-prioritization happens all too often in the corporate world). Personally if I was in charge, I'd be hesitant to ever announce anything like a lift replacement if a contract wasn't signed with the lift manufacturer. Neither of us know what really happened. NRX ran fairly well last year once they got it running so I'll keep my fingers crossed that they finally figured it out.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Dude, give it up. I've been here since 2011, so I predate IKON and yes, it is an issue along with people moving here.

Not to mention, his argument is "demographically dopey", and not supported by any known Census data. It's EPIC/IKON vastly to blame, not migration.

If you take the population growth of Salt Lake County, Summit County, and Wasatch County from 2010 to 2025 it's like 170k people total. Almost all of that is Salt Lake, which has much higher propensity for people to be "not skiers" than skiers, and poorer on average. Yeah, Washington County gained about 75,000 people too, and none of those desert southern types living 5 hours away are crowding Solitude on the daily. The biggest growth is actually Utah County at about another 170k, mostly younger, lots of Mormons, who I'd highly suspect are not really your core skier demo.

And what percentage of people in the state ski, maybe 10% or 12%? That's frankly probably an overstatement. So you add that ENTIRE Census growth up and slap 10% skiers on it, and not to mention the average skier only skis 5 days per season, well that's just a ridiculously small number possible from "migrants", versus the massive increase in TSV (total skier visits).

 

[BenedictGomez]

Vermont population
2010 = 626,000
2025 = 650,000

Oh my GOSH, all 24,000 of the people Vermont gained in the last 15 years are skiers, every one of them, and they ALL moved to Morrisville & Waterbury!
That explains the crowding at Stowe today & the miles long lines of traffic on 108 that didn't exist in 2010. It had NOTHING to do with the EPIC pass all along!

 

[Smellytele]

Vermont population
2010 = 626,000
2025 = 650,000

Oh my GOSH, all 24,000 of the people Vermont gained in the last 15 years are skiers, every one of them, and they ALL moved to Morrisville & Waterbury!
That explains the crowding at Stowe today & the miles long lines of traffic on 108 that didn't exist in 2010. It had NOTHING to do with the EPIC pass all along!

Has VT seen a larger increase of 2nd homeowners?

 

[Rogman]

Vermont skier/rider visits have hovered a tad over 4 million since 1980, but carry on…

 

[urungus]

Vermont skier/rider visits have hovered a tad over 4 million since 1980, but carry on…View attachment 66635

Your chart is missing the last decade

 

[doublediamond]

Nice old data you got there.

 

[4aprice]

Trying to remember 1988. Must have been a good winter . Olympics in Calgary if IIRC.