Killllington 🎿🏂🏂🎿🎿🏂🏂🎿😀

[jaytrem]

Yey these days they build jumps that will send you into the stratosphere and rails that will crack a bone like it's nothing.

 

[takeahike46er]

You think this because you usually ski at vail owned resorts.

Is it Vail policy to be conservative with rope drops?

I can’t speak to other resorts, but Whistler is extremely liberal, especially in the early season, but that could be due to differences in provincial and federal law.

 

[joshua segal]

Is it Vail policy to be conservative with rope drops?

I can’t speak to other resorts, but Whistler is extremely liberal, especially in the early season, but that could be due to differences in provincial and federal law.

Based on personal experience, it's a local management decision. Not corporate. That being said, this is a Killington thread

 

[joshua segal]

Guessing the much more litigious society we live in now vs many decades ago, has much to do with what at times may seem like being very conservative with rope drops

Agree, but my point is that it is an industry-wide issue: not something specific to any independent area or corporate entity.

 

[Smellytele]

Last time I checked, Vail did not own Killington.

Didn’t say they did. I said you were use to vail and them not opening questionable trails but others do more liberally.

 

[kbroderick]

Guessing the much more litigenous society we live in now vs many decades ago, has much to do with what at times may seem like being very conservative with rope drops

While I'm sure that risk mitigation and liability plays into many (or all) operational decisions, I'd put improvements in snowmaking and grooming in for a mention as a significant influence. Skiers and riders have much higher expectations now than they did years ago for snow surface, and while many of us are more annoyed by what we feel are overly aggressive closures, there are also plenty of skiers out there who get just as annoyed at aggressive openings.

IMO, if you put the MRG patrol in charge of trail openings at just about any major resort (using their normal standards), you'd have angry customers lined up at guest services complaining that the trail they skied should've been closed, and blaming the resort for their inability to ski between the rocks. Likewise, if you put just about any major resort patrol in charge of MRG at anything other than high tide, you'd have customers lined up to complain that skiable trails were closed (and/or they'd just be ducking ropes). IME, most places fall somewhere on a continuum with MRG at one end (and if a trail is closed at MRG, you can rest assured that there's a damn good reason); I'm not sure who owns the other end, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were somewhere Epic.

 

[takeahike46er]

I'm not sure who owns the other end, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were somewhere Epic.

Unless things have changed…ORDA, specifically Whiteface. I won’t go into detail because this is a Killington thread.

 

[benski]

While I'm sure that risk mitigation and liability plays into many (or all) operational decisions, I'd put improvements in snowmaking and grooming in for a mention as a significant influence. Skiers and riders have much higher expectations now than they did years ago for snow surface, and while many of us are more annoyed by what we feel are overly aggressive closures, there are also plenty of skiers out there who get just as annoyed at aggressive openings.

I suspect it is made a lot by people like us or patrollers more than actual litigators who I doubt are in the room with any frequency. I have asked a few litigators and none really buy natural hazards can be legal liabilities stuff.


My experience with ski patrol at Sugarbush is the decision is made by the top patrol leadership, for them the top patroller and the heads of each mountain, and requires the person to ski down each trail to inspect it. This is a slow process and not a top priority. Something like an especially serious injury will take precedent. This is why it often takes a few days to open trails after a storm. The standard there if ski patrol felt comfortable patrolling it, and they were definitely quite liberal. I don't think resorts save any real money keeping trails closed unless also requires running more lifts.

 

[Zand]

Superstar Six just had its grand opening about 15 minutes ago!

 

[Smellytele]

Superstar Six just had its grand opening about 15 minutes ago!

Will be there tomorrow. Canyon should be open as well today

 

[letitsnow1]

Some good skiing today when you avoided the crowds , tommorow should be fun

 

[Rob Katz]

not liking how popular skiing's getting, at all

 

[skiur]

not liking how popular skiing's getting, at all

I guess you never skiied K during the ASC bronze pass days.

 

[thetrailboss]

I guess you never skiied K during the ASC bronze pass days.

Oh, those were the days. That era was what led, in part, to where we are today with EPIC and IKON.

 

[machski]

Oh, those were the days. That era was what led, in part, to where we are today with EPIC and IKON.

I recall K being just as much of a zoo in 1990 on weekends as the ASC days. Actually, it was a bit worse back then as there was only 1 true high speed lift (SS) and so every lift and pod was jammed.

 

[1dog]

I recall K being just as much of a zoo in 1990 on weekends as the ASC days. Actually, it was a bit worse back then as there was only 1 true high speed lift (SS) and so every lift and pod was jammed.

We keep witchin' n' bitchin' but most on Epic/Ikon are skiing more places far cheaper than the 90's.
I'm not a big Wal-mart fan but it serves a huge market. Not apples to apples but hey, $30-$40 or even $50 a day in today's dollars-pretty cheap.

 

[drjeff]

In their heyday back in the late 80's/early 90's when the ASC Passes were very cheap and prevalent, if I remember correctly K had some years where they would draw about 1,000,000 visitors over the course of the season. Nowadays, if I understand it correctly, their annual attendance numbers are 70% +/- a little bit of those peak numbers (and the K regulars can 100% feel free to correct me with those numbers!!!) So while they still draw more than any other resort on the East Coast, they are much less than their really big number years, and have also improved over their early Powdr days when if I remember correctly their annual attendance bottomed out in the modern era at around 600k visitors.

The lift system that K has today vs back when they had those peak attendance numbers, also makes moving the masses around the mountain easier and more efficient now, even if they do have less acres and lifts than they did back then

 

[Newpylong]

I still have the last pre-Peaks ASC Bronze (Mount Snow) pass of mine from 2006!

 

[machski]

In their heyday back in the late 80's/early 90's when the ASC Passes were very cheap and prevalent, if I remember correctly K had some years where they would draw about 1,000,000 visitors over the course of the season. Nowadays, if I understand it correctly, their annual attendance numbers are 70% +/- a little bit of those peak numbers (and the K regulars can 100% feel free to correct me with those numbers!!!) So while they still draw more than any other resort on the East Coast, they are much less than their really big number years, and have also improved over their early Powdr days when if I remember correctly their annual attendance bottomed out in the modern era at around 600k visitors.

The lift system that K has today vs back when they had those peak attendance numbers, also makes moving the masses around the mountain easier and more efficient now, even if they do have less acres and lifts than they did back then

You're thinking too far back Doc. ASC didn't exist in the late 80's, early 90's. That was still S-K-I days at Killington (and Mount Snow too). LBO only had SR in the 80's/earliest 90's, then created LBO Holdings with just Attitash somewhere around 92ish I think? ASC was still several years away.

 

[drjeff]

You're thinking too far back Doc. ASC didn't exist in the late 80's, early 90's. That was still S-K-I days at Killington (and Mount Snow too). LBO only had SR in the 80's/earliest 90's, then created LBO Holdings with just Attitash somewhere around 92ish I think? ASC was still several years away.

Very likely. Add in a few decades of time, and that entire morphing of SKI-LBO and then eventually into ASC and then onto the various other break ups and ownerships after ASC crashed and burned, gets a bit blury as to who was owned by who, when!

If I recall, that early ASC pass that had Mount Snow, Killington, Sugarbush, Waterville, Cranmore, Attitash, Wildcat, Sunday River and Sugarloaf (and probably another resort or 2 that I am forgetting right now, let alone their Western Options), was an awesome time to be a skier/rider in the Northeast, and for relatively short $$ as well!