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Belleayre 2/24/2008 - They still need to get their lift act together (caution ~ rant)

thinnmann

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The snow today was great. The groomers took the new stuff that fell Friday night, that got crudded up on Saturday, and made nice. They left the bumps on Yahoo, Onteora, Seneca, Tongora as usual. It warmed up after 11 AM and skied sooooo nicely.

But the lift situation is horrible. It started first thing, with signs at the lift ticket booths about Superchief being closed today. Broken again. Unbelievable. The Mini-World-Cup race for the kids was canceled. Canceled because they knew that a lot of Superchief beginners would be needing to use lower Yahoo. The knew the lines would be crazy, especially this being a Potter Brothers "flex-day", and the end of a holiday period. All the factors came together to make 15-minute lift lines at lift 7 and Tomahawk.

While waiting in one of those lift lines at Tomahawk, one of the lifties got on top of the lift base engine contraption thingie and yelled to everyone, "Lift 6 is open! Superchief is open!" Great. But we still have this line to wait in. But at least they got it running again. I think that was about 11:30 AM.

Lines after lunch were a little better. 5-10 minutes at lift 7 and Tomahawak. No doubt this was Belleayre's biggest day of this winter so far.

It still baffles me how the Tomahawk lifties can continue to do such a bad job at loading the lift. Here is how it goes. There are two sides to approach Tomahawk quad. On each side there is a singles line, doubles, triples, quad, and lessons/patrol line. It should go like this: two doubles (one set from each side), then a triple + single from side A, triple + single side B, quad side A, quad side B, then start the cycle over again. What they do is totally random. No joke, totally random. doubles, triples, doubles, doubles, triples X3, quad, 4 singles, doubles triples X 3, quad.... You could enter the shortest line and wait the longest. You could enter the longest line and they might have a mind to just let it roll. O, here is the best part - if a liftie has to rotate to a new position to swing chairs or whatever, maybe a chair of two will go up empty. This is because NOBODY KNOWS WHAT TO EXPECT. This creates even more errors on loading. If the people at the head of the queue knew the cycle, there wouldn't be errors and constant loading screw-ups. And one more detail, if you always take the shortest line, no matter how many people you have, you might get a couple words about being in the wrong line, but you never get sent back! So always take the shortest line no matter how many you have because there are no real consequences! (Unless you get ignored by the totally random line selection, of course, which tends to happen most in the quad line simply because it it behind the liftie's back...)

Hey, I know it isn't an easy job, especially on a busy day, but it sure as hell isn't a hard one either.... Count to 4, and load each line fairly.... my 10 year old can do that for the rides at camp carnival in the summer! It seems like they have no level of training or performance criteria, nor do they have any kind of management in charge there.

PS: Two concrete suggestions: 1) Eliminate the doubles line on busy days. Instead make two quad lines and have doubles quad themselves up. Duh. Do that all the time, as a matter of fact. 2) Hire people who actually ski to be lift attendants.
 
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gladerider

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i haven't been to belleayre in like 5 years and today was it. didn't feel like driving far for a day trip with kids and couldn't sit at home knowing there was 10" of snow out there.

it was a nightmare. have never seen so many people. superchief wait was 15~20 min minimum. the lift ticket line in the morning was horrible. it was 20min wait. guess i picked the best day to go there. won't be heading to belleayre anytime soon.

powder condition was very good, though...
 

deadheadskier

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seems like a frustrating situation, mainly because it would appear that it could be easily resolved.

20 minute lines I would get annoyed with, but would expect and deal with on a holiday weekend.

5-10 minute lines on a holiday weekend? I'm be psyched to be so fortunate. Ten minutes is nothing
 

skidbump

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1.Every weekend The conditions are good the lift lines are that long.I have been on the single,double,triple,quad, and instructor and it all averages out
2.I also believe every Mt has the same problem.If the lift is down and you paid for a full price ticket and they did NOT post at ticket booth you can bitch and may get a comp.
3.Those of us who ski and work there prefer to work on the snow on our skiis.
4.If you work the lift or any other job there becides instructor or patroller you cant ski on your scheduled work day.\
5.Ski mid week = no crowds
6.Bitching at front desk may get something..Bitching here get more bitching.
7.Yes lift sucks..yes walking out sucks
 

thinnmann

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6.Bitching at front desk may get something..Bitching here get more bitching.
7.Yes lift sucks..yes walking out sucks

Skid, I'm not really bitching, I am reporting.

OK, maybe it was a borderline bitch........

And I usually love Bell - look through my history of Belleayre trip reports. They are almost all positive. And I have to admit, with 20 weekend/holday days at Belleayre so far this season, we have not had many days when we had to wait on lift lines a lot. Yesterday was about the second. So 90% of the winter has thus far been super.
 

ta&idaho

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FWIW...the lines on Saturday at Hunter (for every lift other than the lemming-filled HSQ) were not nearly this bad. My initial impression--admittedly based only on a handful of experiences in one season--is that the DMC/Jim G./et al contingent is right to defend their surprisingly solid mountain against all the negative perception. For being so far south and so close to NYC, that place rocks.
 

dmc

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FWIW...the lines on Saturday at Hunter (for every lift other than the lemming-filled HSQ) were not nearly this bad. My initial impression--admittedly based only on a handful of experiences in one season--is that the DMC/Jim G./et al contingent is right to defend their surprisingly solid mountain against all the negative perception. For being so far south and so close to NYC, that place rocks.

yup.... We love the terrain... next time your up let me know...

did you catch me playing drums in the bar after skiing? thats why i didn't ride saturday... was resting up for the gig...
 

dmc

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Skid, I'm not really bitching, I am reporting.

OK, maybe it was a borderline bitch........

And I usually love Bell - look through my history of Belleayre trip reports. They are almost all positive. And I have to admit, with 20 weekend/holday days at Belleayre so far this season, we have not had many days when we had to wait on lift lines a lot. Yesterday was about the second. So 90% of the winter has thus far been super.

just pass it off as Pres Day Craziness...
 

thinnmann

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i haven't been to belleayre in like 5 years and today was it. didn't feel like driving far for a day trip with kids and couldn't sit at home knowing there was 10" of snow out there.

it was a nightmare. have never seen so many people. superchief wait was 15~20 min minimum. the lift ticket line in the morning was horrible. it was 20min wait. guess i picked the best day to go there. won't be heading to belleayre anytime soon.

powder condition was very good, though...

You did hit an unfortunate day.

and, on weekends, AAS :) Always Avoid Superchief, except before 9:15 AM.
 

ta&idaho

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yup.... We love the terrain... next time your up let me know...

did you catch me playing drums in the bar after skiing? thats why i didn't ride saturday... was resting up for the gig...

I heard the drums at lunch and bought a cookie from the bake sale, but don't think I saw you. I'll keep you posted next time I head up there.
 

thinnmann

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How's the base at Belleayre..are they still blowing snow? I'm looking forward to an April weekend up there.

I want April too! The base is there, mostly, especially on trails they have previously blown on. There is certainly a lot of hard dense stuff lurking underneath that might soften up or eventually get processed by the grooming machines into something resembling snow. There are also some stockpiled humps sitting around waiting for distribution. They never got or made enough to turn lower Utsayantha into "Area 57" terrain park; although they did get a halfpipe operational a few weeks back.

I didn't see any active snowguns during the weekend days, but their conditions report indicates snowmaking is taking place on specific trails.
 

kingslug

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Just got back from Hunter. We where at bell on Sunday and yes it was nuts, but not as nuts as the day before.I heard they had over 5000 people show up. Where the hell did they put them. I can' even imagine what that was like. I was at Whiteface the weekend before, when 5500 showed up. But WF is 4 times the size of Bell. I found the conditions at Bell to be pretty scratchy. Not so much in the beginning but later on some runs became a slide for life for most people. Dot Nebel the worst. My poor niece almost had a heart attack on it but my wife got her down. She's getting better and better and is liking th moguls more and more.
Here's the strange part. Hunter today had completely different conditions. Not a drop of ice, except in the moguls of course. I skied lap after lap on all the runs and it just got better as the day went on. racers Edge which is usualy pretty skied off was awesome the whole day. I guess Hunter just has a much better base.
As far as the lift being broken at Bell. I work with big machinery, they can be a bitch to fix, too many safeties, relays, etc. If you don't have the exact spare part in stock, you're out of luck until you get it. Maybe the crowds put too much a strain on it. Who knows.
 
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I don't think Whiteface is 4 times the size of Belleayre..at least in terms of acerage..Whiteface is high but it's also really narrow..any stats hounds out there???
 
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I saw on a quick search that Whiteface is 225 skiable acres and Belleayre is about 135..

It's good to see the Catskills are doing well as it's a pretty depressed area and can use extra tourism dollars..
 

thinnmann

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Just got back from Hunter. We where at bell on Sunday and yes it was nuts, but not as nuts as the day before.I heard they had over 5000 people show up. Where the hell did they put them. I can' even imagine what that was like. I was at Whiteface the weekend before, when 5500 showed up. But WF is 4 times the size of Bell. I found the conditions at Bell to be pretty scratchy. Not so much in the beginning but later on some runs became a slide for life for most people. Dot Nebel the worst. My poor niece almost had a heart attack on it but my wife got her down. She's getting better and better and is liking th moguls more and more.
Here's the strange part. Hunter today had completely different conditions. Not a drop of ice, except in the moguls of course. I skied lap after lap on all the runs and it just got better as the day went on. racers Edge which is usualy pretty skied off was awesome the whole day. I guess Hunter just has a much better base.
As far as the lift being broken at Bell. I work with big machinery, they can be a bitch to fix, too many safeties, relays, etc. If you don't have the exact spare part in stock, you're out of luck until you get it. Maybe the crowds put too much a strain on it. Who knows.

Saturday at Bell wasn't bad at all.

Amazing how fast conditions change at Bell. For example, Prez day weekend had significantly different conditions on each day, Sat-Mon.

If you stay off the middle of Dot on top you can find a lot of snow doing short turns down the edges. That goes for just about everywhere there. Unless the ice is see-through, sharp edges and carving hard instead of braking helps a lot too. But you knew that.

Spare parts and broken hearts keep the world turning around... Rumor had it they were waiting for a part from Oklahoma. But that might have just been an attempt at humor........ The manufacturer's mechanics were allegedly there. Superchief should still be under waranty... :roll:
 
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Dot Nebal is an awesome run for High Speed cruising..I hope they put a high speed quad on that side of the mountain as well..as it's like 10 minutes up and 2 minutes down..
 

kingslug

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Whiteface is 220, Belleayre is 171.

Ah....but the vertical is the real deal at WF. And no, lets not start a WF is this and that thread. But the real difference is that it can take you 10 to 15 minutes to get down WF, under 2 for Bell. I think I clocked a 1;40 to the bottom of Dot Nebel. this fact alone makes handeling 5500 people a lot easier at WF than at Bell, especialy when Bell had 2 lifts running and WF has I think 10, with a Godi that seats 6 to 8. this is a huge difference!!!!!!!
 
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