Belleayre Petition

[chrisrunsi]

Hey Everyone,

Well as the title suggests at the bottom is a link to e-sign a petition in support of Belleayre Mountain, New York. Basically, Belle is a state owned mountain and in the past Whiteface and Gore have been getting much funding from the state while Belle was overlooked. Please sign the petition to help show how much support the mountain has in an effort to get the plans put on paper and and get the mountain improvments rolling!!

Thank you to everyone who signs!!

http://www.petitiononline.com/djkelly2/

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Maybe in their next UMP they can put in some clauses that state they can't make snow in April and give countless season passes and comps away. You know...run it like a business and not piss $$$ down the drain. :roll:

 

[Skimaine]

"piss $$$ down the drain" = the outcome of many government run programs

 

[mondeo]

I'll sign it!

After all, I live in Connecticut. Not my money.

 

[catskills]

Maybe in their next UMP they can put in some clauses that state they can't make snow in April and give countless season passes and comps away. You know...run it like a business and not piss $$$ down the drain. :roll:

Belleayre does run the mountain like a business. Dollar for dollar Belleayre maximizes their return on their snowmaking expenses better than most ski areas. I don't have a lot of respect for all this Monday morning quarterbacking from folks that don't have a clue on Belleayre expenses and their management decisions.

Last year NY State gave Belleayre an extremely small budget for snowmaking. In fact the snowmaking fund was so small not all the trails were going to be opened. Belleayre's smart mountain management was able to open up all the trails with this limited budget given to them by NY State.

All these negative comments toward Belleayre's snowmaking is uncalled for. If you actually knew what the financials were I think you would be extremely impressed how Belleayre is capable of delivering a quality product at such a low cost.

Just because you see Belleayre blow snow from a couple of guns late in the season, don't blow a fuse and assume that Belleayre is wasting 10s of 1000s of dollars. :roll:

If you want to talk about waste talk about mountains that have so much horse power in their snowmaking equipment they can cover their entire mountain in 5 days. Belleayre has not purchased enough snowmaking equipment to cover their mountain in that short amount of time. Other ski areas have made huge investments in snowmaking power, which Belleayre does not have.

What Belleayre has learned to do is utilize the limited snowmaking power they do have and still deliver a quality snow sports experience that is second to none.

 

[millerm277]

Belleayre does run the mountain like a business. Dollar for dollar Belleayre maximizes their return on their snowmaking expenses better than most ski areas. I don't have a lot of respect for all this Monday morning quarterbacking from folks that don't have a clue on Belleayre expenses and their management decisions.

Last year NY State gave Belleayre an extremely small budget for snowmaking. In fact the snowmaking fund was so small not all the trails were going to be opened. Belleayre's smart mountain management was able to open up all the trails with this limited budget given to them by NY State.

Actually, considering that Belleayre is a public entity(?), shouldn't a large portion of it's information be public information so we can see and decide that for ourselves? (I have no real interest in finding out, but lots of things are available if you ask.)

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Didn't the state last year almost close Bell or severly reduce days open due to no money at the state level but changed their mind at the last moment? The state is broke and I guess the powers in Albany feel they can't afford to run three ski hills.

I do remember a report in the news recently where Albany has to cut all departments again due to being insolvent, like many states, so, unfortunately it looks like Bell is close to the cleaver. The state budget has only gotten worse since last years decision so they have to cut somewhere.

I empathize with you, if I was a Bell regular and paid NY taxes I would be pissed too but you have to admit Whiteface is a world class venue with 2 Olympics under their belt and all the facilities that go along with that.

Can't make as good a case for Gore other than the improvements were in the pipeline way before the economy hit the skids. Good Luck!

 

[faceplant]

Didn't the state last year almost close Bell or severly reduce days open due to no money at the state level but changed their mind at the last moment? The state is broke and I guess the powers in Albany feel they can't afford to run three ski hills.

I do remember a report in the news recently where Albany has to cut all departments again due to being insolvent, like many states, so, unfortunately it looks like Bell is close to the cleaver. The state budget has only gotten worse since last years decision so they have to cut somewhere.

I empathize with you, if I was a Bell regular and paid NY taxes I would be pissed too but you have to admit Whiteface is a world class venue with 2 Olympics under their belt and all the facilities that go along with that.

Can't make as good a case for Gore other than the improvements were in the pipeline way before the economy hit the skids. Good Luck!

WF & gore are under ORDA > main word being 'development'
bell is under DEC > main word being 'conservation"

ORDA took out big loans for >'development'< of WF & Gore
DEC ignores bell for >'conservation'<

starting to see the pic here?

DEC is hostile to Bell but know they can't shut it down because they dont want a revolt
so they just ignore it
.....til the elected officials have to step in to do what the people want

thats the impression that i get
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZOyQT4aVz4

 

[catskills]

Didn't the state last year almost close Bell or severly reduce days open due to no money at the state level but changed their mind at the last moment? The state is broke and I guess the powers in Albany feel they can't afford to run three ski hills.

I do remember a report in the news recently where Albany has to cut all departments again due to being insolvent, like many states, so, unfortunately it looks like Bell is close to the cleaver. The state budget has only gotten worse since last years decision so they have to cut somewhere.

"close to the clearver" Hahahaha now that is funny. Don't be spreading rumors that aren't even close to true. If you have been reading you would know that Belleayre's existence is a critical part of the private business economy and jobs in Ulster & Delaware counties. Without Belleayre that part of NY state's economy would be devastated resulting in lower/NO tax collection, increase state expenses for unemployment; welfare; health care; and crime. Cost of running Belleayre is a bargain compared to the alternative. NY State is well aware of this.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Last year NY State gave Belleayre an extremely small budget for snowmaking.

That was last year when the shit hit the fan

All these negative comments toward Belleayre's snowmaking is uncalled for. If you actually knew what the financials were I think you would be extremely impressed how Belleayre is capable of delivering a quality product at such a low cost.

Sounds like you know, so tell us.

Just because you see Belleayre blow snow from a couple of guns late in the season, don't blow a fuse and assume that Belleayre is wasting 10s of 1000s of dollars. :roll:

Snow making does cost hugh amounts of money. Making snow in April, regardless of how limited, gets no return on investment when you know it's going to melt in probably days, especially that far south.


I notice you addressed my comment on snow making, but you didn't mention anything about all the season passes and comps they where just giving away.

 

[dmc]

So will this make things better?

Are you insinuating that those bad things are currently happening? - "unemployment; welfare; health care; and crime."

Or are you saying this will prevent these things from happening?

Not arguing - just curious..

 

[dmc]

I notice you addressed my comment on snow making, but you didn't mention anything about all the season passes and comps they where just giving away.

And the fact that they don't incur insurance costs for employees... I could go on...

Bell certainly has an advantage... I'd expect them to be doing better...

And certainly want that...

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

ORDA took out big loans for >'development'< of WF & Gore
DEC ignores bell for >'conservation'<

Bingo - also, Hoyt's High new trail on Lookout, will not have snowmaking for the 2nd year in a row because they don't have the money for the pipe.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Well as the title suggests at the bottom is a link to e-sign a petition in support of Belleayre Mountain, New York. Basically, Belle is a state owned mountain and in the past Whiteface and Gore have been getting much funding from the state while Belle was overlooked. Please sign the petition to help show how much support the mountain has in an effort to get the plans put on paper and and get the mountain improvments rolling!!

[/URL]

Look, I’m sympatric to your concerns about development, but I think you’re mad at the wrong people. The problems there stem more from the way the DEC runs Bell then them not getting a fair deal from the state. It’s been mentioned in this thread that Bell doesn’t even have a 5 year UMP in place. Right now ORDA runs WF and Gore better then the DEC runs Bell and it shows.

 

[catskills]

So will this make things better?

Are you insinuating that those bad things are currently happening? - "unemployment; welfare; health care; and crime."

Or are you saying this will prevent these things from happening?

Not arguing - just curious..

I am saying if you want to put a nail in the coffin and kill the economy of Ulster & Dellaware counties then yeah go ahead and close Belleayre. If you want to keep Belleayre open then you can't just cash cow it and not make improvements. Its one or the other folks.

I know somebody is going to say NY State should sell Belleayre. The problem is Belleayre is such a small trivial sliver (less than a blip on the radar screen) of the NY State budget. To sell Belleayre would require a change to the NY State Constitution which means a lot of work from politicians when they got a lot more important issues to work on.

Anybody seen the PBS series from Ken Burns on Americas National Parks Americas Best Idea. Not sure where NY State Parks fit into this. If you saw some or all of this PBS series think about NY State's Mammoth Park system. Belleayre is not such a bad thing. :flag:

 

[dmc]

I am saying if you want to put a nail in the coffin and kill the economy of Ulster & Dellaware counties then yeah go ahead and close Belleayre. If you want to keep Belleayre open then you can't just cash cow it and not make improvements. Its one or the other folks.

First of all... Nobody wants Belleayre to close.. So just chill...

I hear what your saying... But - it would be great if it could do more to support itself by eliminating some of the aforementioned things and tightening the belt.. not just when the state tells them to...

 

[catskills]

First of all... Nobody wants Belleayre to close.. So just chill...

I hear what your saying... But - it would be great if it could do more to support itself by eliminating some of the aforementioned things and tightening the belt.. not just when the state tells them to...

DMC Belleayre has a very tight belt and does a damn good job managing the financial expense and revenue. Just because Belleayre is run by the state do not assume that Belleayre waist 10s of 1000s of dollars. NY State sends auditors all the time to Belleayre to review the books. If you search hard enough on Google you can find some of these extremely detailed audits and what improvements are recommended.

 

[dmc]

DMC Belleayre has a very tight belt and does a damn good job managing the financial expense and revenue. Just because Belleayre is run by the state do not assume that Belleayre waist 10s of 1000s of dollars. NY State sends auditors all the time to Belleayre to review the books. If you search hard enough on Google you can find some of these extremely detailed audits and what improvements are recommended.

cool... but they do give a lot of stuff away...

I never said it was because Belleayre is run by the state.. I'm saying the very fact it is run by the state helps it out by decreasing operating costs like insurance..

So I don't know why they can't come up with the cash to improve.. People go there... Winter and summer.. Whats going on with the $?

 

[ski_resort_observer]

WF & gore are under ORDA > main word being 'development'
bell is under DEC > main word being 'conservation"

ORDA took out big loans for >'development'< of WF & Gore
DEC ignores bell for >'conservation'<

starting to see the pic here?

DEC is hostile to Bell but know they can't shut it down because they dont want a revolt
so they just ignore it
.....til the elected officials have to step in to do what the people want

thats the impression that i get
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZOyQT4aVz4

I worked for DEC as a park ranger during college in the Adirondack Park, that's what the patch on my shirt said. My family owned and operated a resort in the Daks when it became the Adirondack Park it's motto is "Forever Wild". If you think ORDA stands for "developement" try and build something, it's nearly impossible.

Bottom line it's still state money, a state that doesn't have any. You need to get your elected officials to support Bell for any hope of success.

 

[kingslug]

Signed.