Jay Peak Conceptual Development Plan (2011-2016)

[Sick Bird Rider]

None of this seams to have changed from the plan posted in the Real Estate Office that I started this thread with.

Very true. It's just a lot more out in the open now. And far less conceptual-sounding.

Here is the new trail at Timbuktu:

Hah. That trail already has a name, which I'm sure you know. It's just not on the map.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Here is the new trail at Timbuktu:

I'm still trying to figure out why they are running that "new" lift line the way they are. Why not just keep it all within UN? Cutting across to the Jet is going to leave the lift exposed and turn that whole area into a bigger ice sheet than it already is.

 

[kingdom-tele]

I'm still trying to figure out why they are running that "new" lift line the way they are. Why not just keep it all within UN? Cutting across to the Jet is going to leave the lift exposed and turn that whole area into a bigger ice sheet than it already is.

the new JP plan, remove as many trees as possible, guaranteed to make ski conditions as horrible as possible to quarantine people inside.

hoping they put in a nice arcade in the new lodge on stateside, maybe even have a few games that can simulate the experience of skiing through the woods

west bowl should be great when they over cut everything, it bakes off even faster rendering acres and acres into unskiable mank

 

[thetrailboss]

Looks like a former business partner of JPR's is not so happy with how the work is going and is throwing around vague accusations that JPR is not managing the EB-5 money as well as it should nor being as realistic about expectations as it should be:

http://www.wcax.com/story/17116100/questions-about-jay-peaks-finances

Again, vague accusations.

 

[BenedictGomez]

^ Color me not surprised

 

[Magog Fishy]

New Master Plan (version 4)

Bump. New master plan (they are calling it version 4) just posted as part of their State Side Lodge Act 250 application:

File will take awhile to load, as it is 5.5 mb:

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/imaging/planning/7R0854-12/P13 - Concept Master Plan Version 4.pdf

Still sorting through everything. Notice the connector trail to the West Bowl that goes around BBP, and the new trail that starts from the top of the Bonnie and connects with Lower Milk Run. Lot of side-country glades (south facing) on the east side of the West Bowl. I don't like the fact that they are contemplating screwing with Kitz, and of course the new trail next to Timbuktu that we have seen on prior plans.

 

[riverc0il]

WTF is up with condos off Ullr's and Kokomo. BARF.

The trail to Lower Milk looks good. They might need to rename that Upper Milk and rename Upper Milk to Spoiled Milk or Split Milk. I won't cry over that new line, looks good.

That new trail off Kitz is BLASPHEMOUS. Gah. W-T-F. We already knew about the also blasphemous intermediate trail skier's right of Timbuktu. Was hoping that they would come to their senses by this point but it is still there. Unreal. More WTF in the Angle's Wiggle/Hell's Crossing area.

What the hell are they doing to Green Beret? We don't need more pointless islands and less trail integrity.

I like the regen areas. Would like to see some regen glades but getting open trails less rocky and more grassy is a good thing.

Lots of shoulders and turns being taken out and straightened out, all over the place. UGH.

West Bowl? Eh. It better be DAMNED GOOD since they are screwing with the main mountain so much. Even with all the foreign money, how on EARTH is JPR going to be able to afford four new lifts on top of the new six pack next year (maybe?) and the relo of the existing lifts? New lifts don't create full time year round jobs.

New triple doesn't go up high enough to be useful except for the Can Am park and to get back to Stateside. I was hoping for access to the trails off Taxi. That would have made a good lower mountain lift for windy days, still some good trails accessible from Taxi. But that is pretty much useless except to transfer to Tramside. I'd almost rather ride the T which is nice and quick if uncomfortable.

I don't like it. I shrugged my shoulders at the water park but I can't shrug my shoulders at massive trail changes including chopping down tree shots and widening existing trails.

 

[deadheadskier]

WTF is up with condos off Ullr's and Kokomo. BARF.

.

that's the only part of the project that really bothers me, just because it would suck to come out Beaver Pond / Andres and be greeted by a wall of condos.

Everything else seems in line with what they're trying to build Jay into; a 500K skier visit major resort drawing wealthy second home buyers from Boston and Montreal.

 

[jaytrem]

New triple doesn't go up high enough to be useful except for the Can Am park and to get back to Stateside. I was hoping for access to the trails off Taxi. That would have made a good lower mountain lift for windy days, still some good trails accessible from Taxi. But that is pretty much useless except to transfer to Tramside. I'd almost rather ride the T which is nice and quick if uncomfortable.

Looks like it's a quad now, guess they don't think the Jet is worth moving. At least not for that.

 

[riverc0il]

Looks like it's a quad now, guess they don't think the Jet is worth moving. At least not for that.

That is strange, the Jet is marked as a Quad. So if that novice transfer lift is also a quad, what are they doing with the Jet? Perhaps they will have extra chairs from the Bonnie since the Jet is shorter than the Bonnie and they will split them up? They still need towers and a drive for that novice transfer lift, I don't know if the current Jet drive or tower would accommodate quads.

 

[gregnye]

Awww... come on! Why do they have to make the evil condos!


By next winter I was really hoping that they got their act togethor and installed the Bonnie 6-pack (I think it could be named the "Power-line 6-Pack") and replaced jet with old bonnie and Jet moved to taxi.

But no, they probably will decide to build other things instead.

Whatever, there's nothing I can do--and it won't top me from going to Jay!!

EDIT: That is odd that the lift to taxi is a quad. Is there really that much traffic to support it?

 

[JPTracker]

Awww... come on! Why do they have to make the evil condos!


By next winter I was really hoping that they got their act togethor and installed the Bonnie 6-pack (I think it could be named the "Power-line 6-Pack") and replaced jet with old bonnie and Jet moved to taxi.

But no, they probably will decide to build other things instead.

Whatever, there's nothing I can do--and it won't top me from going to Jay!!

EDIT: That is odd that the lift to taxi is a quad. Is there really that much traffic to support it?

The permit that this plan was submitted as part of is only for three condo buildings. I believe that they still plan to do the lifts this summer. They are currently in the way of the Stateside development and have to be moved before they can proceed with that.

Hope to get answers to most of these questions at our annual Homeowners meeting in June.

 

[Sick Bird Rider]

WTF is up with condos off Ullr's and Kokomo. BARF.

I tend to agree but doubt this will appear in my lifetime at least. Not that that makes it any better. It would be quite drive up to that condo on a snow day!

The trail to Lower Milk looks good.

Lower Milk is one of the great under-appreciated trails at JP. It would be good to see it get a little more love and have a logical entry via this new trail. My "whole milk" run is a bit contrived (FYI, this is Green Beret to Upper Milk to Lower Milk).

That new trail off Kitz is BLASPHEMOUS. Gah. W-T-F.

Well, you're right, there are some nice trees in there. On the other hand, the proposed line would make Kitz a more sustained, logical run. The current flattish side-hill runout after the steep pitch is pretty stupid IMHO.

We already knew about the also blasphemous intermediate trail skier's right of Timbuktu. Was hoping that they would come to their senses by this point but it is still there. Unreal. More WTF in the Angle's Wiggle/Hell's Crossing area.

Agreed. They might as well have just have called it Corona on the new map.

More WTF in the Angle's Wiggle/Hell's Crossing area.

I don't know, it would be nice to have an alternative to the Angel's Wiggle shitshow. That proposed trail seems to follow an old line that you can see on Google Earth and in real life if you go in there. It could still leave the nice little tree shot on skier's right but give better skiers an option for avoiding the sliding gapers on AW.

What the hell are they doing to Green Beret? We don't need more pointless islands and less trail integrity.

GB has opened up a lot in the last few years. This map acknowledges that and to my mind, does not propose anything radically different. Except for the alternate exit. Remember, it is only a map, drawn by a mapmaker, and still a concept. I will reserve judgement on this.

I like the regen areas. Would like to see some regen glades but getting open trails less rocky and more grassy is a good thing.

Lots of shoulders and turns being taken out and straightened out, all over the place. UGH.

Can't argue with that. Some things should just be left alone.

West Bowl? Eh. It better be DAMNED GOOD since they are screwing with the main mountain so much. Even with all the foreign money, how on EARTH is JPR going to be able to afford four new lifts on top of the new six pack next year (maybe?) and the relo of the existing lifts? New lifts don't create full time year round jobs.

How many lifties can lift shack hold, if a lift shack could hold lifties? Money does not seem to a problem here: Or as Freddie sang: "Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide. No escape from reality. Open your eyes. Look up to the skies and see. "

New triple doesn't go up high enough to be useful except for the Can Am park and to get back to Stateside. I was hoping for access to the trails off Taxi. That would have made a good lower mountain lift for windy days, still some good trails accessible from Taxi. But that is pretty much useless except to transfer to Tramside. I'd almost rather ride the T which is nice and quick if uncomfortable.

This proposed chair roughly follows the line of the original Stateside t-bar from back in the day. This alignment will breath new life into the little group of trails like Rabbit, Kangaroo, Paradise Meadows, Boulevard and Sweetheart, which are now largely forgotten. These are really fun easy trails, so will re-open up a world of novice skiing on Stateside and the new lift will still give easy access to Tramside.

I don't like it. I shrugged my shoulders at the water park but I can't shrug my shoulders at massive trail changes including chopping down tree shots and widening existing trails.

I can see why you don't like it. I have some issues with it (Corona, especially) but see more positives. The trail map of Jay is not like other hills and there are vast blank spots that don't make sense. To me, this proposal addresses that, if not perfectly. It will be interesting to see what really happens. We will all still ski there, I imagine.

 

[riverc0il]

It is at least comforting to know that before I started skiing Jay Peak, there probably were other folks that got upset about changes happening that I probably enjoy.

SBR... did you notice the other alterations to Green Beret above the alt entrance? Just because a trail has changed over the years, I don't think that is a reason to keep widening it and cutting down more trees around it.

I'm sure a lot of the things on this plan won't happen or will happen a lot more gradually than many of the changes we've seen in the past two years.

No doubt on the novice trail, I just wish it went a bit higher so it might access a little more than novice trails. I'm not sure that is a great area for a "novice pod". Those flat run outs are narrow and have a lot of skiers wizzing back to the lift a mach schnell. Metro Quad already seems to service nice novice terrain. I guess with the Stateside Hotel and all the new condos, it does make sense to have a novice pod on both sides of the mountain and it will be a nice treat for novices to move around.

 

[Sick Bird Rider]

SBR... did you notice the other alterations to Green Beret above the alt entrance? Just because a trail has changed over the years, I don't think that is a reason to keep widening it and cutting down more trees around it.

Call me crazy but I wouldn't get too stressed about that. I think the mapmaker is simply looking at an aerial photo, or more likely Google Earth, and drawing what they see now. That big gap skier right of the first pitch would show up now as an open area with islands. Given all the $ potentially spent on other trail development/realignment, i would think it is safe to say that green beret is low on the priority list. Funny that Pumphouse does not show up on this map, given what and obvious line it now is, and how much cutting has been done there.

 

[Magog Fishy]

Skiing down Kokomo and seeing a bunch of condos is going to be weird. I understand why they are doing it – there are a lot of wetlands at the base of West Bowl, which will impede real estate development – but will still be weird. Yeah the drive-up to some of those condos during a snowstorm will be hairy, and will certainly be years before they are all built – IIRC the 300 new EB5 units (THL, Hotel Jay, Golf Course cottages) can be sold by the investors after I believe 5 years, which should mean a lot of units coming on the market.

What the hell are they doing to Green Beret? We don't need more pointless islands and less trail integrity.

It looks like there might be an error on the map – looks like the map person left an old layer on the CAD file.

West Bowl? Eh. It better be DAMNED GOOD since they are screwing with the main mountain so much. Even with all the foreign money, how on EARTH is JPR going to be able to afford four new lifts on top of the new six pack next year (maybe?) and the relo of the existing lifts? New lifts don't create full time year round jobs.

This recent Jay video suggests a lot about their belief that they need more intermediate terrain. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ysvqJDLU8k&feature=relmfu The new BC opportunity might be worth the other pain – not going to discuss on a public forum, although people will figure it out. They got a financial machine going -- should still be able to pull it off financially, even with their recent Rapid divorce as long as EB is extended. Snow making water permits might be the biggest issue of all, although they are working on them behind the scene.

That is strange, the Jet is marked as a Quad. So if that novice transfer lift is also a quad, what are they doing with the Jet? Perhaps they will have extra chairs from the Bonnie since the Jet is shorter than the Bonnie and they will split them up? They still need towers and a drive for that novice transfer lift, I don't know if the current Jet drive or tower would accommodate quads.

Yeah, not sure WTF is going on there.

Anyways major kudos to Jay for making snow last week and staying open. Hoping to get a few more days of skiing in, and hopefully Mother Nature will show up with a nice late season storm.

 

[from_the_NEK]

That is strange, the Jet is marked as a Quad. So if that novice transfer lift is also a quad, what are they doing with the Jet? Perhaps they will have extra chairs from the Bonnie since the Jet is shorter than the Bonnie and they will split them up? They still need towers and a drive for that novice transfer lift, I don't know if the current Jet drive or tower would accommodate quads.

Let me first say :-o:-o:-o to this incredibly ambitious plan.

On the note of the Jet triple. I would venture a guess that as Jay continue advance its image with big shiney new things, they don't want an old, slow, and "ugly" triple chair outside the windows of their fancy new Stateside lodge. Instead, they spring for a short new(er) nicer looking quad to put there. That extra capacity will be nice when everything on the upper mtn is on hold.

Meanwhile, the Jet triple gets put into storage and pulled out again when the West Bowl starts to take shape. The transfer lift "H" between the West Bowl lodge and Harmony Lane would be a perfect place to rebuild the old triple. It doesn't need to be fast and it doesn't need to be pretty. The added bonus is that new lift line would be almost identical in length to the current Jet lift line which means 1/2 of the lift components wouldn't end up in the scrap heap.

This plan is likely more cost effective since they would be buying a new 1,980 ft lift instead of a 3,150 ft one.

 

[JPTracker]

I think it was at the season pass holders party that I heard Bill Stenger make a comment that he was about to sign the contracts for both lifts. Never got a chance to ask him what he meant by "Both Lifts" and didn't think much of it. Maybe there will be two new lifts.

 

[from_the_NEK]

The sheer number of yellow buildings on this plan is amazing (and IMHO not in a good way).

The entire road network between the base areas a Route 242 is completely realligned as well. State Side and Tram Side each have their own separate entrances.

Looking at that area of houses and condos surrounding the new access roads, they are going to have to run a shuttle bus system around in there.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Once this is built out, it will be approx 2.6 miles from boundary to boundary.