Trails with absurd difficulty ratings

[MadPatSki]

Then you have the European ratings that are Green, Blue, Red and Black.

For those old enough to remember, prior to a uniform system across North America, they were some interesting case across the East. Sutton used to have the European system until maybe the early 1980s.

Here are some of my Eastern favorites from the 1970s:

Smugglers Notch VT (1978-79): http://madpatski.wordpress.com/2011/12/26/monday-mad-addicts-attic-smugglers-notch-vermont/
Green Triangle (easy)
Blue Square (intermediate)
Red Circle (expert)

Mont Tremblant Lodge (1973-1978 map) : http://madpatski.wordpress.com/2011/04/18/monday-mad-addict’s-attic-mont-tremblant-lodge/

Green Square (easy)
Yellow Triangle (intermediate)
Blue Circle (expert)


So Smuggs and Tremblant agreed on a few things; circle were expert runs (red or blue) and green (triangle or square) were easy.

 

[bobbutts]

Ripsaw at Loon is a "double black diamond" - it would be considered a challenging blue in Northern VT

Disagree, I guess we need a protractor, but I'd wager there's not a blue run that steep anywhere in the entire state of VT.

 

[MadMadWorld]

Disagree, I guess we need a protractor, but I'd wager there's not a blue run that steep anywhere in the entire state of VT.

Yea, it's steep enough to be a diamond just about anywhere in new england.

 

[KevinF]

Disagree, I guess we need a protractor, but I'd wager there's not a blue run that steep anywhere in the entire state of VT.

It's been a long, long time since I've skied at Loon, but in terms of "steep blues" -- I've always wanted to measure the steepness of Stowe's Main Street (a blue). It's only three or four turns long, but I've seen more people frozen-in-fear there then just about anywhere else.

 

[MadMadWorld]

I agree with the whole triple black diamond being bogus, but I think a place like jay could be justified in assigning some double blacks. To have the face chutes rated the same as jet might give some the wrong impression that because they can ski a single diamond they can ski all. Havent been to MRG so cant speak on their ratings.

I don't think they really need to. Yes, Face Chutes are much harder than anything on the map at Jay but everyone and their mother sees it from the tram and knows exactly what they are getting into. I also agree that Black Hole should not be marked a triple diamond. As I have said before, you have to ski a section of Robin's Run/Lift Line or Free Fall just to access it. And if you can hold your own on any of those three trails then I am pretty sure you will be fine.

 

[bdfreetuna]

If somebody skis Face Chutes @ Jay or Paradise @ MRG and find themselves in over their heads because "it's only a black diamond"...

well...

:lol:

 

[MadMadWorld]

I think it would be Sutton, although I haven't look carefully at a MSA in a long time.

Red Mountain BC used to have quadruple blacks in the early 1990s. I think that I should maybe post it in February's Ski Mad World Attic post. The January one is already lined up for next Monday.

I believe there is one at Le Massif but it's been awhile...

 

[MadPatSki]

I believe there is one at Le Massif but it's been awhile...

42 was special back in the 1990s; I don't recall how the official rating was. I can check it out if I have an old trail map from that era at home. I know I have 2 from the pre-lifts/school bus days.

 

[St. Bear]

Most knowledgeable skiers will see the rating and know that it takes some skill to get down it. I prefer understatement and actually like those resorts that just leave the expert runs as a single black diamond (MRG, Jay for example).

I see your point, but as a skier whose ability straddles the line between black/double black, it certainly is helpful to have that distinction.

 

[MadMadWorld]

Then you have the European ratings that are Green, Blue, Red and Black.

And some places in South America like La Parva

 

[AdironRider]

Now whos at the level where trail ratings dont even matter?

 

[MadPatSki]

And some places in South America like La Parva

Rating in the Andes is often the same system as the one used in the Alps.

 

[bobbutts]

Now whos at the level where trail ratings dont even matter?

At lots of places around here probably many of us. Sunapee comes to mind.

 

[snowmonster]

I think it would be Sutton, although I haven't look carefully at a MSA in a long time.

I believe there is one at Le Massif but it's been awhile...

Both of you are correct. Sutton and Le Massif have triple diamond runs. They are still on the trail map (Sutton - Crocodile, Entonnoir, Bou-Bou; Le Massif - Le Charlevoix). Been studying maps of resorts in Quebec. I need to hit these places this season.

Now whos at the level where trail ratings dont even matter?

I'm glad I'm over the stage where I needed to look at the trail map to make sure that I avoided the black trails.

 

[bdfreetuna]

Both of you are correct. Sutton and Le Massif have triple diamond runs. They are still on the trail map (Sutton - Crocodile, Entonnoir, Bou-Bou; Le Massif - Le Charlevoix).

So are these runs actually extremely difficult, or are these absurd trail ratings?

On this thread: http://www.zoneski.com/forum/index.php/topic/15148-journee-de-ski-memorable-a-sutton/ Go to post 5 and there are a series of photos of Entonnior rated <><><> at Sutton which looks not too difficult sort of a narrow windy one.

Here is what I can find of "Bou-Bou", one of the <><><> at Sutton.. looks like fun to me but nothing beyond the scope of a usual double diamond. This place looks like a ton of fun to ski though.

 

[hammer]

I'm glad I'm over the stage where I needed to look at the trail map to make sure that I avoided the black trails.

I'm not over that stage yet at some areas, but on a busy day I feel like I need to look at the trail map to make sure I avoid the blues. :roll:

 

[abc]

I agree with the whole triple black diamond being bogus, but I think a place like jay could be justified in assigning some double blacks. To have the face chutes rated the same as jet might give some the wrong impression that because they can ski a single diamond they can ski all. Havent been to MRG so cant speak on their ratings.

I see your point, but as a skier whose ability straddles the line between black/double black, it certainly is helpful to have that distinction.

I'll buy the need for the like of double black. But I don't like the double black itself, which gave the impression it's just a harder black.

I think each resort should be allowed to designate what they considered "outrageously difficult" trails. And it should be understood it can range from steep'ish bumps at Stratton to cliffs in Jackson Hole!

That would preserve the general green/blue/black being similar all over but allow resorts to warn yahoos who might think it's "just another black"!

Personally, I like the white water world of definition:

Class III: needs manuvering to avoid obstacles, but no consequence if missing the line
Class IV: complex manuvering required, bodily injury possible if missing the safe line;
Class V: Death Likely if missing the line;
Class VI: unnavigable (death certainly)!

What the ski resorts need are color to designate "you're going to crash into rocks/trees and get seriously hurt UNLESS you have skill to handle all possible terrains"! And resorts should reserve those designation to not-so-obvious ones. Tight trees on steep slopes don't need it because it's obvious how hard it is. But a 50' cliff band half way down a convex slope would be a candidate for such designation!

 

[MadMadWorld]

So are these runs actually extremely difficult, or are these absurd trail ratings?

On this thread: http://www.zoneski.com/forum/index.php/topic/15148-journee-de-ski-memorable-a-sutton/ Go to post 5 and there are a series of photos of Entonnior rated <><><> at Sutton which looks not too difficult sort of a narrow windy one.

Here is what I can find of "Bou-Bou", one of the <><><> at Sutton.. looks like fun to me but nothing beyond the scope of a usual double diamond. This place looks like a ton of fun to ski though.

La Charlevoix is somewhat comparable to Paradise at MRG. it skis more like an area then a trail. It can be anything from steep wide open trees to rocky chutes and cliffs into tight hardwoods. It can get pretty hairy in some places but everything can pretty much be avoided. I guess it could be called an "eastern" double but to call it a triple is a joke.

 

[Euler]

I was at Mont Sutton for two days recently and it was AMAZING! There's not a trail there that would be described as a "cruiser" I dont think. The ratings aren't absurd, but the triple diamonds are certainly skiable by mortals. I'm an advanced intermediate (can survive a trail like ripcord at Mt. Snow when not too icy, though not with a lot o grace) I found the double black woods there challenging, but not as challenging for me as ripcord.

It seemed like the mountain had decided at some point to call its steepest "glades" double blacks, so when they opened up and named real "tree skiing" (not thinned as much as the glades) they needed a higher difficulty rating.

So are these runs actually extremely difficult, or are these absurd trail ratings?

On this thread: http://www.zoneski.com/forum/index.php/topic/15148-journee-de-ski-memorable-a-sutton/ Go to post 5 and there are a series of photos of Entonnior rated <><><> at Sutton which looks not too difficult sort of a narrow windy one.

Here is what I can find of "Bou-Bou", one of the <><><> at Sutton.. looks like fun to me but nothing beyond the scope of a usual double diamond. This place looks like a ton of fun to ski though.

 

[goldsbar]

I think each resort should be allowed to designate what they considered "outrageously difficult" trails. And it should be understood it can range from steep'ish bumps at Stratton to cliffs in Jackson Hole!

Jackson Hole has one of those "you're going to die" signs for the tram which isn't even that hard - but would be really hard for a low intermediate so they're just trying to save people from a long walk.